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Thread: The PRR-East Database Files

  1. #1

    Default The PRR-East Database Files

    All,
    This is what I'm fighting on the PRR-East . . The first image is a clip from a World (W) file datablock for a Speed Post item.
    You see that the top line is TrItemId ( 6106 )

    This tells the Sim to go to the Track Item Table ( TIT ) file for information about the Speed Post and how it's related to the Track Database. The TrItemId ( 6106 ) is the important thing here in the World file.
    The datablocks in the TIT, TDB and World files with this TrItemId number MUST match.

    Here's the World file datablock for UiD 51736:
    Click on image to view.
    world file TrItemId 6106.jpg

    now here is the Track Item Table ( TIT ) file datablock for TrItemId ( 6106 )

    TrItemId 6106 in TIT file6.jpg

    Note that the TIT datablock is for a Signal Item! This is database corruption.

    Here's a clip from the OR error log:
    Code:
    Warning: 
    System.IO.FileLoadException: {TileX:-11065 TileZ:14262 X:-539.036 Y:21.7682 Z:-814.749}
    scenery object 51736 failed to load ---> System.InvalidCastException: 
    Unable to cast object of type 'Orts.Formats.Msts.SignalItem' to type 
    'Orts.Formats.Msts.SpeedPostItem'.
    The coordinates allow me to visit the location in the TSRE editor. What I'll usually find is a speedpost that has no corresponding Icon, the white pyramid on the track. If I try to select the speedpost it instantly crashes TSRE. Seems TSRE gets upset when he try's to associate a speedpost with a signal datablock in the TIT file. (i would too)
    So here the remedy is a Fairly simple world file edit.
    Locate the entry pictured above, highlight it and press the delete key. Done!

    There are variations on these bugs . . A signal without a Red pyramid is one. All I need do is delete the signal and the world file and TIT file get updated.

    So I'm going through these errors line by line. Sigh . . . this is so much like I did for over 30 years eith IBM.

    Every deletion or addition of a Track Item has to be tested by just start any activity in OR and end it before running and a new error log is produced.

    This is what I'm fighting friends; A bunch of mis-matched, overlaid, folded, spindled and mutilated database files.

    Thank's to the OR developers sooo much for providing a meaningful Open Rails Log . . .
    It calls these errors out so all I need do is navigate to the world file, find the entry and see what the TrItemId points to in the TIT file. If I find a mismatch, the world file entry gets snuffed.

    Much thanks also to Goku for working with me on this, improving on his editor, the latest being able to select AND delete TDB Items. Quite dangerous if you don't have an intimate understanding of MSTS file structure but I've had only one self induced meltdown that required going for the backup. Time lost? About 4 hours work.
    Back to work. Fun!

    regards,
    Last edited by Vince; 11-05-2018 at 09:34 PM.
    ............Vince ..............
    ...... Author NECv4 .......
    .... LIRR BUILD PHOTOS ....
    .............LIRR VIDEO.............
    ...... Eschew Obsfucation ......

    On the The Statue of Liberty in New York Harbor there is a Tablet. On it is written:
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    the wretched refuse of your teeming shore, send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Carolina's
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    Vince, I have little patience and would have binned the route by now. Especially considering the poor scenery quality in places. Kudo's for your steadfast dedication to this project.

    Robert

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Oshawa ON
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    Yes, what Robert said. This is going to be a great route when you are done, it already surpasses some others.
    It is fantastic what you have taken on Vince, and looks like Goku is helping. Kudos again!

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    Location
    Washington, DC Area, USA
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    Thanks for all you're doing with this, Vince. Like some of the others who've posted, I know I don't have the patience or the time to do something like this on a small scale, much less one as huge as this undertaking.
    Steve Burr, PE - Clinton, MD
    Southern Serves the South

  5. #5

    Default

    Hey, it's steady work . . . and the error list is getting shorter finally. The big blowup was new speedposts (and all interactives for that matter) were under the standard way of database items used any "Empty Item" datablock in any of the two track database files.
    Somehow these 'empty' items were still linked to broken database entries that should have been deleted when an item like signals was deleted but due to some quirk were not.

    Goku came through on this in the TSRE5_v0.6963 experimental version where I can choose whether to use (or not) any empty item blocks in the TDB_TIT files. Just say no to empty item use has save the day although I worry as does Goku just how many empty Item datablocks will the editors and the Sim tolerate.

    That's a big unknown but so far I'm holding deletions of database items to a minimum for less empty item generation.
    I also have to test after every new speed post install as these seem to cause the most trouble.

    Headed for Washington where I need some signals and speed posts. Can't have my AI blasting into the terminal at 45 MPH.
    Everything else so far seems okay. I ran the Senator activity yesterday (3 Hrs) NY Penn to Washington) that has AI and yard population maxed out without any problem.

    Pop me any questions and they will be cheerfully answered.
    Back to work.
    regards,
    ............Vince ..............
    ...... Author NECv4 .......
    .... LIRR BUILD PHOTOS ....
    .............LIRR VIDEO.............
    ...... Eschew Obsfucation ......

    On the The Statue of Liberty in New York Harbor there is a Tablet. On it is written:
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    the wretched refuse of your teeming shore, send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

  6. #6

    Default

    Below is a list of ALL remaining errors on the PRR_EAST_REG-2 as detected and logged by Open Rails Train Simulator.

    When I started there were over 1000 errors listed so a bit of progress has been made.
    The first part of the log shows ( what turned out to be ) Rogue Blue Poles. i.e. A single TrEndNode connected to what amounts to nothing.
    These are as Goku describes, "an ugly bug"; Difficult to remove but a way will be found.

    Second part of the log is a bit of a puzzle, and may go away if a method to eliminate the "Empty Item" datablocks in the routes database files as I have searched through all the databases for a week now and the only references I see are to the Empty Item datablocks.
    Anyway . . . The last remaining database errors in the route:
    Code:
     BLUE POLES
    Warning: Ignored invalid track node 1110 pin [0,0] link to track node 1
    Warning: Ignored invalid track node 1777 pin [0,0] link to track node 1
    Warning: Ignored invalid track node 1838 pin [0,0] link to track node 1
    Warning: Ignored invalid track node 2349 pin [0,0] link to track node 1
    Warning: Ignored invalid track node 2541 pin [0,0] link to track node 1
    Warning: Ignored invalid track node 3448 pin [0,0] link to track node 1
    Warning: Ignored invalid track node 3449 pin [0,0] link to track node 1
    Warning: Ignored invalid track node 3673 pin [0,0] link to track node 1
    Warning: Ignored invalid track node 4666 pin [0,0] link to track node 1
    Warning: Ignored invalid track node 5918 pin [0,0] link to track node 1
    Warning: Ignored invalid track node 9686 pin [0,0] link to track node 1
    Warning: Ignored invalid track node 9846 pin [0,0] link to track node 1
    Warning: Ignored invalid track node 12284 pin [0,0] link to track node 1
    Warning: Ignored invalid track node 12653 pin [0,0] link to track node 1
    Warning: Ignored invalid track node 13249 pin [0,0] link to track node 1
    Warning: Ignored invalid track node 13306 pin [0,0] link to track node 1
    Warning: Ignored invalid track node 13307 pin [0,0] link to track node 1
    Warning: Ignored invalid track node 13308 pin [0,0] link to track node 1
    
    Not clearly understood ... yet. 
    Information: Signal 627 ; TC : 21044 ; NextTC : -1 ; TN : 906
    Information: Signal 628 ; TC : 21044 ; NextTC : -1 ; TN : 906
    Information: Signal 4102 ; TC : 23024 ; NextTC : -1 ; TN : 6358
    Information: Signal 4103 ; TC : 23024 ; NextTC : -1 ; TN : 6358
    Information: Signal 4104 ; TC : 23024 ; NextTC : -1 ; TN : 6358
    Information: Signal 4785 ; TC : 23625 ; NextTC : -1 ; TN : 8409
    Information: Signal 4975 ; TC : 23798 ; NextTC : -1 ; TN : 8628
    Information: Signal 4976 ; TC : 23798 ; NextTC : -1 ; TN : 8628
    Information: Signal 4977 ; TC : 23798 ; NextTC : -1 ; TN : 8628
    Information: Signal 5229 ; TC : 24049 ; NextTC : -1 ; TN : 9108
    Information: Signal 5240 ; TC : 24062 ; NextTC : -1 ; TN : 9113
    Information: Signal 6670 ; TC : 25167 ; NextTC : -1 ; TN : 12777
    Information: Signal 6764 ; TC : 25264 ; NextTC : -1 ; TN : 12889
    Information: Signal 6805 ; TC : 25305 ; NextTC : -1 ; TN : 12920
    Information: Signal 6806 ; TC : 25305 ; NextTC : -1 ; TN : 12920
    Information: Signal 6883 ; TC : 25381 ; NextTC : -1 ; TN : 12977
    Information: Signal 8016 ; TC : 26228 ; NextTC : -1 ; TN : 13656
    Progress of a Sort.

    regards,
    ............Vince ..............
    ...... Author NECv4 .......
    .... LIRR BUILD PHOTOS ....
    .............LIRR VIDEO.............
    ...... Eschew Obsfucation ......

    On the The Statue of Liberty in New York Harbor there is a Tablet. On it is written:
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    the wretched refuse of your teeming shore, send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Georgia, USA.
    Posts
    252

    Default

    Hi Vince

    I might be able to help with the blue poles if you can get a copy of your TDB and TIT to me, such as via Dropbox or similar?

    Chuck R
    "More railroads crossed each other more times in Chicago than anywhere else in America"
    Jon R. Roma, Trains Magazine, July 2003.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Georgia, USA.
    Posts
    252

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    Hi Vince

    Out of curiosity after seeing your error listing, I decided to fire up my TDB analysis/removal tool that I wrote several years ago (TSimDBTool). Back then, I had used the original 2010 PRR-Eastern TDB to test it. This time, I wanted to see how your error listing would compare with the old TDB. Turns out it reported errors with the same TNs in error as in your list. Here is a portion from that report:
    ================================
    Following are TrackNodes with TrPin ( 0 0 ).
    - Error: TrackNode 7 at -11008 14318 -488.689 -743.599 has a "TrPin ( 0 0 )."
    - Error: TrackNode 1110 at -11028 14302 178.184 587.569 has a "TrPin ( 0 0 )."
    - Error: TrackNode 1777 at -11055 14283 -630.946 -978.363 has a "TrPin ( 0 0 )."
    - Error: TrackNode 1838 at -11056 14282 415.856 867.35 has a "TrPin ( 0 0 )."
    - Error: TrackNode 2349 at -11060 14278 -825.62 -479.994 has a "TrPin ( 0 0 )."
    - Error: TrackNode 2541 at -11061 14267 -390.383 -495.833 has a "TrPin ( 0 0 )."
    - Error: TrackNode 3448 at -11007 14320 -670.41 -947.109 has a "TrPin ( 0 0 )."
    - Error: TrackNode 3449 at -11007 14320 -666.171 -944.486 has a "TrPin ( 0 0 )."
    - Error: TrackNode 3673 at -11007 14322 5.00948e-037 -3.0838e-036 has a "TrPin ( 0 0 )."
    - Error: TrackNode 4666 at -11010 14321 -180.585 151.32 has a "TrPin ( 0 0 )."
    - Error: TrackNode 5918 at -11149 14348 -319.811 266.595 has a "TrPin ( 0 0 )."
    - Error: TrackNode 9686 at -10986 14349 912.877 -1014.95 has a "TrPin ( 0 0 )."
    - Error: TrackNode 9846 at -10981 14353 457.885 -503.178 has a "TrPin ( 0 0 )."
    - Error: TrackNode 12284 at -10968 14361 -863.827 55.1565 has a "TrPin ( 0 0 )."
    - Error: TrackNode 12653 at -11047 14288 -233.988 744.933 has a "TrPin ( 0 0 )."
    - Error: TrackNode 13249 at -11048 14305 266.889 -259.858 has a "TrPin ( 0 0 )."
    - Error: TrackNode 13306 at -11047 14288 -230.952 740.979 has a "TrPin ( 0 0 )."
    - Error: TrackNode 13307 at -11047 14288 -227.916 737.025 has a "TrPin ( 0 0 )."
    - Error: TrackNode 13308 at -11047 14288 -224.88 733.071 has a "TrPin ( 0 0 )."
    =================================

    What this latest report shows is that there were twenty paths (chains) in that TDB that had a "TrPin ( 0 0 )" in them. Each line above has a TN that can be used as a starting point for that particular path. If you navigate to the world file and X/Z position indicated, you will likely see a blue pole. Also at some locations you'll see extraneous sections at or below the terrain. I recall that OTTO (RIP) buried tracks during his efforts to resolve dynamic track issues. As we all know, whenever UiDs get out of sequence from subsequent RE activities, "Adjacent..." or other error issues would occur and prevent deletions/repairs, and produce blue poles in unwanted places. I think that is what happened.

    Other than manual editing or whatever TSRE provides, the only way I know to resolve such issues is to remove the bad path(s). If a path is isolated from the main line before removal, there should be no harm to the main line after removal. So, I removed these. The tool renumbers all linkages and turns any interactives encountered during removal into "EmptyItem"s. It does not need world files to run, and does not remove corresponding entries from world files. They cause no harm there but can be unsightly. If so, they can be deleted there via RE/TSRE or manually edited for deletion.

    BTW, in the original PRR-Eastern, there were 114 separate paths using 19799 Tracknodes. One of the paths had 19438 TrackNodes, it was the main line. The rest were isolated from the main line and ranged in size from one to ninety one TNs. The twenty above were among them.

    I used the tool back then and again the other day to remove them, and did some testing by navigating to some of those locations. There were no blue poles, there were some extraneous sections on the surface and below, and after messing around with tracks and doing saves, there were no indications of any errors. I did not run any activities.

    The tool may do the same for you, but I hesitate to suggest it at this point. It was released as a beta back then, from which I got no responses. AFAIK, it was never tested "in the field", so I just don't know. Also after using it the other day, I saw several ways to improve the "TrPin ( 0 0 )" error reporting. I incorporated them along with some UI and readme changes.

    Anyway, that is why I offered to help in my earlier reply in this thread. My interest and efforts on behalf of the PRR-Eastern goes back a long ways, and the community can really benefit from your new and improved version. I think use of the tool might help if you get stuck on the blue poles.

    So if you are still dealing with those blue poles and want to pursue resolving them via the tool, let me know. If you would send me copies of your TDB/TIT, I could use the tool, see the analysis, send you the new files and latest tool version, and guide you accordingly.

    Chuck R.
    "More railroads crossed each other more times in Chicago than anywhere else in America"
    Jon R. Roma, Trains Magazine, July 2003.

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