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Thread: Wish to run the BHP world record train

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
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    Eltham, Australia.
    Posts
    6,445

    Default

    Hi All,

    well 12 downloads.

    I need feedback on whether you have got it to work?
    Cheers
    Derek

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Wellesley Hills, Massachusetts, USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by derekmorton View Post
    Hi All,

    well 12 downloads.

    I need feedback on whether you have got it to work?
    Hi Derek,

    Yes, it works for me, but I think you need to clarify some things.

    First, was this activity designed for MSTS or ORTS? The signals and meets on a single-track route such as this will vary between the two sims.

    Secondly, if it was designed for ORTS, what optional variables were you using when you did the design work? Depending upon the combination of those the act will play out differently as well. Here's what I've been using:

    General tab: Alerter in cab, Retainer valve on all cars and 21 PSI for Brake pipe charging; Graduated release air brakes NOT selected
    Simulation tab: Everything checked except Override non-electrified route line-voltage ;-)
    Experimental tab: All checked except Automatically tune settings, ETCS circular speed gauge, Signal lite glow and MSTS environments. Adhesion level is Hard

    I haven't finished the activity yet because I keep breaking couplers; I'm gradually learning at what point along the route I have to be very gentle …

    Thanks for making this activity, as despite the fact that the terrain looks a bit like Mars and there's not much to see, driving this train takes real skill … which equals a lot of fun!!

    Cheers,

    David

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Perth, WA, Australia.
    Posts
    533

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by R. Steele View Post
    Well, coincidentally, I've been running this route for a couple of months. I wanted something extreme to test the files I have been making...just to see how they held up. I have OR conversions for all the stock for the BHP. I used the data/physics exactly as found in Mareks engine files.

    I'm having trouble going up to the main line from the Yandi balloon. Cannot seem to make it...my guess is that it's my inexperience. When I run from Mac I do okay. It will be interesting to try to world record consists in OR.

    If anyone is interested I can make up a conversion kit and attach it here, or upload to library.
    I also have all the Dash9s found in pilbara_c44-9w_kd.zip converted. They are all in one folder so the end user will have to separate them out.
    Regards, Gerry
    Attachment 75414
    Hi Gerry,

    I have just tested (in OpenRails) the climb out of Yandi 1 from a standing start with the lead loco starting at the turnout of the ballon loop. Using the au_2D8+104loaded_2rake_mixed.con consist that comes with the CM40-8M locos, the train makes it to the crest of the hill MP298 at ~16km/h.

    This is slightly slower than it should be because those locos were released for MSTS and MSTS does not calculate parasitic loads on the prime mover for the MaxPower variable, however OpenRails does. I changed the MaxPower value for the CM40-8M locos to MaxPower ( 3132.0kW ) and tested again. This time the minimum climb speed was a bit higher at ~18 km/h, which I believe is still a couple of km/h slower than it should be. I also reached the crest several minutes sooner. I will have to find my notes on this to confirm but I believe the minimum speed up this section was in the order of 19-20 km/h with 104 car rakes.

    Also note that the train composition matters. Train compositions on this route have changed over the years but the 2 x CM40-8M locos hauling 104 ore cars weighing 145 tonnes each in a twin or triple rake is what was used to climb the ruling gradient at that time without dropping below minimum continuous speed. Adding or removing a couple of ore cars is going to make a difference when the consists are already optimised.

    Hope this helps.

    Cheers,

    Marek.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by superheatedsteam View Post
    Hi Gerry,

    I have just tested (in OpenRails) the climb out of Yandi 1 from a standing start with the lead loco starting at the turnout of the ballon loop. Using the au_2D8+104loaded_2rake_mixed.con consist that comes with the CM40-8M locos, the train makes it to the crest of the hill MP298 at ~16km/h....
    Hope this helps.
    Cheers, Marek.
    Yes, it does, thanks. To clarify, I've attached the ORTS CM40-8 engine include file. I'm using 4100HP - tractive and 4350 as maximal ( or gross ) HP.
    Are these figures in alignment with what you use?

    Regards, Gerry
    Code:
    Comment ( Standard ORTS Diesel Engine for Billiton BHP CM40-8 )
    Comment ( Performance Ratings == Gross HP 4350 == Traction HP 4100 == CTE 109035lb @ 12.53mph==90% == MTE 141180lb )
    Comment ( include ( "..\\..\\Common.inc\\Locomotives\\Std_BHP_Eng_CM40-8.inc" ) )
    
    ORTSDieselEngines ( 1			
    	Diesel(		
    	IdleRPM	( 315 )	
    	MaxRPM	( 1050 )	
    	StartingRPM	( 185 )
    	StartingConfirmRPM	( 325 )
    	ChangeUpRPMpS	( 92 )
    	ChangeDownRPMpS	( 58 )	
    	RateOfChangeUpRPMpSS	( 34 )	
    	RateOfChangeDownRPMpSS	( 23 )	
    	MaximalPower	( 3243795 )	
    	IdleExhaust	( 1.2 )	
    	MaxExhaust	( 2.2 )	
    	ExhaustDynamics	( 1.6 )	
    	ExhaustDynamicsDown	( 0.8 )	
    	ExhaustColor	( 20161819 )	
    	ExhaustTransientColor	( 40212324 )	
    	DieselPowerTab (		
    		0	0
    		407	405474
    		499	810949
    		591	1216423
    		683	1621897
    		775	2027372
    		867	2432846
    		959	2838320
    		1050 3243795
    	)		
    	DieselConsumptionTab (		
    		0	0
    		315	17.4
    		1050 738.1
    	)		
    	ThrottleRPMTab (		
    		0	315
    		12.5	407
    		25	499
    		37.5	591
    		50	683
    		62.5	775
    		75	867
    		87.5	959
    		100	1050
    	)		
    	DieselTorqueTab (		
    		0	0
    		315	68360.8
    		1050 20508.2
    	)		
    	MinOilPressure	( 30 )	
    	MaxOilPressure	( 90 )	
    	MaxTemperature	( 120 )	
    	Cooling	( 3 )	
    	TempTimeConstant	( 720 )	
    	OptTemperature	( 71 )	
    	IdleTemperature	( 55 )	
    	)		
    )
    ORTS (
    	ORTSEmergencyCausesThrottleDown ( 1 )
    	ORTSMainResChargingRate ( 0.237 )
    	ORTSBrakePipeChargingRate ( 40 )
    	TrainPipeLeakRate ( 0.0833 )
    	ORTSEngineBrakeReleaseRate ( 38 )
    	ORTSEngineBrakeApplicationRate ( 34 )
    	ORTSBrakePipeTimeFactor ( 0.003 )
    	ORTSBrakeEmergencyTimeFactor ( 0.1 )
    	ORTSBrakeServiceTimeFactor ( 1.009 )
    	)
    ORTSMaxTractiveForceCurves (					
    		0 (			
    			0	0	
    			4.33	0	
    			5.81	0	
    			7.60	0	
    			8.94	0	
    			13.41	0	
    			17.88	0	
    			22.35	0	
    			26.82	0	
    			31.29	0	
    			35.76	0	)
    	0.125 (				
    			0	78414	
    			4.33	78414	
    			5.81	58424	
    			7.60	44677	
    			8.94	37975	
    			13.41	25317	
    			17.88	18988	
    			22.35	15190	
    			26.82	12658	
    			31.29	10850	
    			35.76	9494	)
    	0.25 (				
    			0	156827	
    			4.33	156827	
    			5.81	116848	
    			7.60	89354	
    			8.94	75951	
    			13.41	50634	
    			17.88	37975	
    			22.35	30380	
    			26.82	25317	
    			31.29	21700	
    			35.76	18988	)
    	0.375 (				
    			0	235241	
    			4.33	235241	
    			5.81	175271	
    			7.60	134031	
    			8.94	113926	
    			13.41	75951	
    			17.88	56963	
    			22.35	45571	
    			26.82	37975	
    			31.29	32550	
    			35.76	28482	)
    	0.50 (				
    			0	313655	
    			4.33	313655	
    			5.81	233695	
    			7.60	178708	
    			8.94	151902	
    			13.41	101268	
    			17.88	75951	
    			22.35	60761	
    			26.82	50634	
    			31.29	43401	
    			35.76	37975	)
    	0.625 (				
    			0	392068	
    			4.33	392068	
    			5.81	292119	
    			7.60	223385	
    			8.94	189877	
    			13.41	126585	
    			17.88	94939	
    			22.35	75951	
    			26.82	63292	
    			31.29	54251	
    			35.76	47469	)
    	0.75 (				
    			0	470482	
    			4.33	470482	
    			5.81	350543	
    			7.60	268062	
    			8.94	227853	
    			13.41	151902	
    			17.88	113926	
    			22.35	91141	
    			26.82	75951	
    			31.29	65101	
    			35.76	56963	)
    	0.875 (				
    			0	548896	
    			4.33	548896	
    			5.81	408967	
    			7.60	312739	
    			8.94	265828	
    			13.41	177219	
    			17.88	132914	
    			22.35	106331	
    			26.82	88609	
    			31.29	75951	
    			35.76	66457	)
    	1.0 (				
    			0	627309	
    			4.33	627309	
    			5.81	467391	
    			7.60	357416	
    			8.94	303804	
    			13.41	202536	
    			17.88	151902	
    			22.35	121522	
    			26.82	101268	
    			31.29	86801	
    			35.76	75951	)
    		)
    Cheers, R. Steele [Gerry] It's my railroad and I'll do what I want! Historically accurate attitude of US Railroad Barons.


  5. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    I forgot to ask, does anyone have a path from Yandi Junction to the coast?
    I do not have the route set up to use any MSTS editors and being consumed by trying to understand physics has left little time to learn the Trackviewer path making function or even beginning to use the TSRE AE function.
    Appreciate any help.
    Regards, Gerry
    Cheers, R. Steele [Gerry] It's my railroad and I'll do what I want! Historically accurate attitude of US Railroad Barons.


  6. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Steele View Post
    I forgot to ask, does anyone have a path from Yandi Junction to the coast?
    I do not have the route set up to use any MSTS editors and being consumed by trying to understand physics has left little time to learn the Trackviewer path making function or even beginning to use the TSRE AE function.
    Appreciate any help.
    Regards, Gerry
    Never mind, I did not understand the route, the Weeli to Boondarie path will work just fine.
    Cheers, R. Steele [Gerry] It's my railroad and I'll do what I want! Historically accurate attitude of US Railroad Barons.


  7. #17
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    Feb 2013
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by superheatedsteam View Post
    ... MSTS does not calculate parasitic loads on the prime mover for the MaxPower variable, however OpenRails does....
    Marek.
    The question I have, what percentage does OR use in the code to calculate power loss ( parasitic loads ) in a diesel power system?
    Cheers, R. Steele [Gerry] It's my railroad and I'll do what I want! Historically accurate attitude of US Railroad Barons.


  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Perth, WA, Australia.
    Posts
    533

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by R. Steele View Post
    Are these figures in alignment with what you use?

    Regards, Gerry
    Hi Gerry,

    I used the MSTS eng files for my testing yesterday. I have not looked at updating the files for any Pilbara rolling stock to OR as yet as I have other modelling projects currently in progress.

    Note that I found with my NR Class that when I added the tractive effort values for traction and dynamics using the enhanced ORTS parameters the loco never reached the maximum current draw/tractive effort of the values I added. Due to lack of documentation, time and ability to interpret the source code at the time I moved onto other things. I may look into this later if I feel like getting up to speed with programming again.

    Cheers,

    Marek.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    Eltham, Australia.
    Posts
    6,445

    Default

    Hi David,

    I will clarify as well as I can!!

    Given the date on the .con file, I suggest that MSTS was the target.
    The con file is not mine, I changed one of the supplied activities to make this one.

    I am lacking about 90% of the required skills by the look of it. :-)

    cheers
    Derek
    Cheers
    Derek

  10. #20

    Default

    Don't forget to derail it now

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