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Thread: Trainmaster issues.

  1. #1
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    Default Trainmaster issues.

    I've always liked the FM Trainmaster. A pretty functional looking piece of kit, thought "ahead of it's time" it none the less served several roads and particularly hauling commuter traffic. SO having recently re-installed the Blue Comet Line, and also inspired by recent work on CNJ new stock I decided to have a go at reskinning the N&W model in the library.

    ALAS my efforts seem thwarted by existing issues with the model. I've had them downloaded for ages but never actually ran them in the Sim. BTW we're talking MSTS AND OR here. The same faults apply equally in either.

    1st the cabview included: This, whilst somewhat dated, is adequate BUT the needles are out of alignment with the dials

    2nd the PHYSICS: I created a consist using the CNJ commuter cars (zt_cnj_hw.zip) and with only 4 cars the loco seemed somewhat sluggish in acceleration for such a powerful loco.

    3rd the braking: When I tried to stop for a local station the consist overshot completely! It's as if the physics are set to replicate the braking that might be encountered hauling a long and heavy freight consist!!! Commuter trains, even loco hauled ones, were capable of rapid acceleration and equally rapid and precise braking.

    ....so all in all my efforts at reskinning seem pointless unless those issues can be fixed. Not something I have any skill at, and that's before we get into the MSTS v OR physics debate.

    If anyone cares to have a look at them I'd love to test out any fixes. Probably best to go for the OR version now?

    BTW nice sound with this model but we really could use a state of the art model of a lot of the FM catalogue as the models that exist (which BTW are pretty good) are looking rather dated alongside newer models now.

    I've attached some screengrabs of efforts. The way the original model is skinned does not allow me to show the CNJ logo on the cab sides correctly. This comparatively bare livery adorned several of CNJ's Trainmasters although some had the more familiar stripes.

    click to enlarge-

    CNJ Trainmaster 1.jpg CNJ Trainmaster 2.jpg CNJ Trainmaster 3.jpg
    Geoff
    Dorset - near The Swanage Railway.
    UK

  2. #2
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    Default

    There are two trainmasters in the OR standard engine files I just uploaded to the library, both using Bob Boudoin's OR physics.
    Std_Eng_FM_H15-44.inc and Std_Eng_FM_H24-66.inc. I'd be happy to make up an OpenRails folder for you to try out, test, and make some improvements.
    Cheers, R. Steele [Gerry] It's my railroad and I'll do what I want! Historically accurate attitude of US Railroad Barons.


  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Steele View Post
    There are two trainmasters in the OR standard engine files I just uploaded to the library, both using Bob Boudoin's OR physics.
    Std_Eng_FM_H15-44.inc and Std_Eng_FM_H24-66.inc. I'd be happy to make up an OpenRails folder for you to try out, test, and make some improvements.
    Hi Gerry, Thanks for the heads up. I've been comparing the .engs with some similar UK loco's that Mick Clarke tweaked for more realistic performance. Changed some stuff but whilst the brake application and release seem better the ability to "stop on a dime" still eludes me. I can get the consist to slow more convincingly but the final stop see's me overshoot even from 20 m.p.h. and passenger train should be able to stop pretty smoothly and steadily from that speed. Obviously many your side of the pond will be used to stations without platforms but many US routes (like many European routes) have stations with raised platforms. A "simulation" should be capable of stopping within the tightest of platform lengths.

    Of course I haven't yet considered the braking in the coach files? That may be having an adverse effect too?

    Real life calls right now and I'm already in the dog house for spending time on this today. I'll look at your uploads and do some comparisons later.
    Geoff
    Dorset - near The Swanage Railway.
    UK

  4. #4
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    Default

    Hi Geoff,

    You need to look at the passenger cars as well.
    They will weigh as much as the engine.
    Cheers
    Derek

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by derekmorton View Post
    Hi Geoff,

    You need to look at the passenger cars as well.
    They will weigh as much as the engine.
    Wow! How right you are! I compared these CNJ Commuter cars with some Mk1 UK coaches that Mick Clarke had tweaked. I knew that the UK loco and these coaches performed realistically. Firstly I was staggered at the "given" weight of the CNJ coaches! Nearly twice the weight of the UK coaches. NOW if that affect performance in the Sim(s) no wonder the acceleration seemed slow! However I've DVD's of older US commuter trains and they seem to perform pretty much as UK commuter trains did. Could it be that these weights are wrong for commuter carriages? Secondly the Air refresh rates were WAY different. Commuter trains have to keep to tight schedules which means rapid stops, short as possible load time and rapid acceleration. Within City suburbs this is a process that could be required within a mile of the previous top and again in a further mile. Long winded air recharges would be unusable.

    So adjusting some parameters to match the Mk1's and playing with the BRAKE FORCE figure I've achieved a reasonably believable performance. However this is pretty much trial and error. It's going to upset a few folk here but when Mick set up the stock for Mid East Plus he followed all "the best advice" on physics and found that they just did NOT work. At least they did not deliver believable performance from one consist v another. In the end he tweaked numbers until Xclass loco hauling Xclass stock performed in power and stopping as it would in the real world. BEST ADVICE did not deliver that.

    NOW I haven't applied any OR physics yet so I am interested to try that out. The routes that most interest me now work well in OR and so except for some older UK routes that is my Sim of choice. So I'm interested to try those.... However I can only find specific files in the library Gerry so perhaps you can point me at the FM stuff. I particularly like the Monon FM units so both the lower powered and trainmaster are of interest. Also I've been playing at reskinns for the CN C-Liners for the Conn River Route so setting them up would be good too. Thanks for the help so far.

    BTW one thing that seems odd in the trainmaster is that you cannot change the reverser (even into neutral) until the loco is fully stopped????!!!!
    Geoff
    Dorset - near The Swanage Railway.
    UK

  6. #6
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    BTW one thing that seems odd in the trainmaster is that you cannot change the reverser (even into neutral) until the loco is fully stopped????!!!!
    That one's easy: it's OR, not the trainmaster. Must be stopped to change from forward to reverse or vice versa, at least for diesels and electrics. Haven 't tried it with steam.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeebb View Post
    That one's easy: it's OR, not the trainmaster. Must be stopped to change from forward to reverse or vice versa, at least for diesels and electrics. Haven 't tried it with steam.
    Works with steam.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff
    However I can only find specific files in the library Gerry so perhaps you can point me at the FM stuff.
    I was referring to --- orts_standard_engines.zip --- which has OR standard engine files for both the H15-44 and H24-66.
    Are you referring to the MONON_DIESEL_H15-44_45 and #46? If so, I'll make up a complete conversion kit for OR, all you'll have to do is drop it into the trainset and adjust the brake values and the exhaust specs.
    Cheers, R. Steele [Gerry] It's my railroad and I'll do what I want! Historically accurate attitude of US Railroad Barons.


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