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Thread: Years Of Fun To Figure This Out (Run8 Editorial)

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernWarrior View Post
    Not even interested in Multiplayer full stop, here! Needs to develop into a fully realised SP game.
    Ditto.
    IBM XT i386; 512Kb RAM; 5.25" FDD; 1.4Mb FDD; 5Mb HDD; VGA 256-colour graphics card; AdLib soundcard; DR DOS 6.0; Windows 3.0

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by DakotaDreamer View Post
    @haverfordwest I get it. Maybe some servers can be text based and others voice.
    No worries buddy, i find it easier just to stay away from multiplayer.

    Mike.
    The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt

  3. #13
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    Yeah I like the editable timetable idea. If you recall there was a screenshot before V2 came out (development) that showed a nifty schedule system. It was very much like TD3 where trains has a base time, but not always appeared on time. The current spawn system is what I like to refer to as the bingo gumball picker. Except unlike bingo you put the train you spawned back in the hopper

    As for voice communication here is what I wouldn't mind seeing, and that is a built in voice system. Some people like Discord, others Teamspeak. Personally I find them both unrealistic because of the distance a conversation can take place. If it was built into the sim perhaps like the detectors voices could fade out over distance. But having something built in that works good would allow all parties a standard.

    For me because of the weakness I do just fine with text. Dispatchers in CTC don't need much text. It's the players who want to chat or need help learning that appreciate it most (and I get it). I learned over voice myself years ago at the start of V1 despite sticking to text shortly after.

    As a DS it's a PITA to use multiple systems of communication to please everyone.

    My interest in Run8 has faded for some time now. I get good feelings when I come back in, but easily get bored. Yeah single player is very limited as well in my opinion. Smaller regions would be nice so that everyone is on the same page without requiring enough work for an army

    Thanks

    Sean

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SurvivorSean View Post
    Now I know the first idea alone is complicated, and having AI switch i don't think has been done in a train simulator.

    Thanks

    Sean
    Hi Sean,

    Just an FYI - ORTS has AI switching - so I'm sure it can be done...

    Regards,
    Scott

  5. #15
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    Trainz has had AI switching for years as well.
    The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt

  6. #16
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    I had Trainz and don't recall it being able to switch AI. In other words set off cars and pick up others etc. Never knew Open Rails did the same thing. Would love to see a video on it.

    Thanks

    Sean

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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SurvivorSean View Post
    I had Trainz and don't recall it being able to switch AI. In other words set off cars and pick up others etc. Never knew Open Rails did the same thing. Would love to see a video on it.

    Thanks

    Sean
    Yes Sean,

    Trainz AI can operator completely autonomously.

    So can OR buddy https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...ls+AI+shunting

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39iJz4AmlMU

    Mike.
    The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt

  9. #19
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    OK I watched what I could and then tried to recall the familiar activity editor in another video.

    So apparently Open Rails has added a feature to what MSTS had except uncoupling cars. I know MSTS had wait points, reverse points, and I recall creating activities myself years ago that at least allowed a transfer (where the AI I believe died as soon as a player interacted with it). So it's good to see that improvement.

    Trainz has commands that is cool, though I can't really make out what the hell it's doing to be honest with said commands.

    If I understand correctly all of it is scripted. Which gets me back to my reasoning for abandoning MTST the first go around. Writing your own book is great but you always need more authors to produce then play the games. In other words find your favorite railroad and if you want to stick with it eventually you're going to run out of activities.

    So despite the improvements (and I think Trainz has always had a bit more automation to begin with) it doesn't go far enough. Even in the MSTS days I used a random activity generator (simply modified the start times of AI paths) along with some creativity and a switch list generator. I was able to fall in and out of line with AI then work locals etc. Full Bucket Line is another classic example of interaction which could also include switch list generators. Still doesn't go far enough.

    So let me swing this back to Run8 for moment before I get way off topic. We know Run8 has the physics and a player interface to the dispatch board. I understand that Trainz can do some simple forms of AI dispatching or at least something compared to MSTS/OR which relies on scripting.

    So Run8 is based on MP and I'm still cool with that and glad to be able to have the option of doing so. Run8 also has the best world save system in all train simulators in my opinion. Run8 has 3 regions that continues to expand at different rates but all are focused on expanding. So when CA didn't have LA, Seligman, Bakersfield, and who knows what is coming next you could say it was some what manageable. In fact my fear for V2 was despite AI coming that LA would be part of it.

    The AI was needed back when we just had the base Mojave Sub. But as great as operations are with Run8 the bigger regions suffer due to lack of manpower no matter how big the server. Sure we've run prototypical mainline levels before the expansions, but there is no way you can have enough manpower be it single or MP to accomplish all the jobs that takes place in such a massive system.

    CA alone by my estimation would require at least 30 people 24/7 to operate at prototype levels. That would include dispatcher(s), hump operator(s), trim operator(s), yard crew(s), local(s), and manifest trains with work at yards. Our current AI can not handle any of that and with all do respect to those other two fine programs they can't either.

    I remember writing activities and 4 hours of work often took about 24 man hours of time to set-up, test, etc. before you would release to the public.

    So it's very simple. Either Run8 goes for a region for quality over quantity and let it stick. Otherwise continue to find ways of automation that can be very complex because the situation changes as different cars and situations randomly come into play. It can't be scripted, and has to be powerful enough to handle complex operations or at least go in that direction.

    If anything I'd love to see a world of rails connection that potentially brings more than 1 region together yet keeping regions isolated in certain pockets. FYM does a good job of this with their various maps. So potentially trains could leave a region with a consists and time that would go into a calculation to base next territory arrival and condition.

    What we have right now I know makes many people happy, but no crew in reality (as real as it gets) runs a territory the size of a California. I know some people like running a train end to end so be it. But the bigger this becomes without the automation to help both single players and servers, the longer it's going to take to get the work done.

    Thanks

    Sean

  10. #20
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    Even the smallest region and smallest MP group currently running a 24/7 server for Selkirk Mohawk (which is essentially single player) is a great example. 1 Hump, 1 Major Yard, a few smaller yards, about half a dozen switchers at a time. Smiley, myself, and SMRY were running on the server. I couldn't even get regular operations going for a small section out of West Albany. It only had 2 daily switchers to worry about but along with supply trains (who have to cut off and pick up different cars depending on the demand of the day) along with those 2 locals takes about 10 man hours a day.

    Now I've been guilty of running Run8 back in the day when I didn't have a job about 4 hours a day. But single player would take just for that one sliver of Selkirk a few days to accomplish what would take place in 1 day.

    There is a reason why operating model railroad clubs attract members, and that is a bunch of like minded people coming together to operate a railroad. They often run a 24 hour schedule with a fast clock but at least they get through a day.

    If I'm going to go single player and have the operation potential I would hope those trains were a bit more interactive and not reliant on scripts. But for MP one subdivision would be plenty to keep most groups with plenty of variety and work, and it would actually get done.

    Anyways.......

    Thanks

    Sean

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