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Thread: Redesign of the Basic [F5] Train HUD

  1. #1
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    Default Redesign of the Basic [F5] Train HUD

    Hi Folks,

    Re: Conversation on Elvas (http://www.elvastower.com/forums/ind...g/page__st__10)

    Just wanted to add people here in the loop - over on Elvas we started a discussion with a developer to redesign the Train HUD [F5] - this pertains only to the Train HUD [F5] and not the Debug HUDs [Alt F5]... He already has some working examples posted over there...

    A couple more thoughts - let's make the Train HUD - the Train HUD - and remove information that doesn't pertain to actually "driving" a train...

    I'm a minimalist - while we need the information - we need it compact, concise, and as unobtrusive as possible - how about something like this ?

    (19 characters wide in example)


    Code:
        TRAIN HUD
    ----------------------
    TIME: 12:00:55
    SPED: 0,0 kph
    THRO: 0%
    DIRC: N
    BTRN: Serv 41% EQ60
          FOT BC30/BP60
          EOT BC30/BP60     
    BLOC: 0%
    BDYN: 0%
    PANT: Down/Down
    CIRC: Open
    POWR: Off
    ----------------------

    Deletions:
    • We don't need the software version staring us in the face - all the time - available elsewhere.
    • Gradient is already on the Track Monitor.
    • FPS - get it some other way - tends to be more of a distraction anyway - move to DEBUG HUDS ?
    • Multiplayer - do something else for the probably relatively few that use this feature - "Multiplayer HUD" ?


    Using Carlo's Example of Electrics:
    • SPED = Speed
    • THRO = Throttle
    • DIRC = Reverser or Direction
    • BTRN = Brakes Train
    • _FOT = Front Of Train
    • _EOT = End Of Train
    • BLOC = Brakes Locomotive
    • BDYN = Brakes Dynamic
    • PANT = Pantographs
    • CIRC = Circuit Breakers
    • POWR = Power



    Four letter identifiers should be more than sufficient to get the point across for any value and would probably only take a few minutes to get used to... It also keeps everything aligned nicely which helps get the needed information to the user as quickly and efficiently as possible...

    The developer is making an option in the settings to slect "full text" or "abbreviated text" in the settings so you can decide how much screen real estate to sacrifice to the "Train HUD"

    The multiline train brake string seems to make it more "readable" to me vs the single line long string...

    I think if we implemented something like what's listed above - in a window with tinted background - it may pretty much negate the need for control confirmations... The whole reason we needed "Control Confirmations" was the HUD was so difficult to see... Perhaps we could (one or more of the following) highlight/blink/bold/underline the actual value being actively changed by the user for a few seconds - in the HUD - as a new control confirmation - to immediately draw your eye to the value being modified ? This would eliminate the redundancy of control confirmations and the additional screen clutter that comes with it... This will also free up the key (in short supply) to blank "Control Confirmations" for PIX or VIDS - as you can simply close the HUD...

    If there's any interest - I'll certainly make Steam and Diesel examples as well...

    Very happy the HUD is finally getting some much needed and deserved TLC - please don't give up on us - Mauricio...

    Attached is my vision of what the new Steam HUD should look like - doing similar for Diesels and Electrics... The highlighted label (magenta) - indicates the control has just been moved by the operator and should stay magenta for a similar time period that Control Confirmations remain visible - with the end goal of removing Control Confirmations entirely...

    Since this will affect us all - you might want to take this opportunity to get your two cents in - with ideas, agreement, and/or objections... I'm not the developer and I'm merely making suggestions...

    Regards,
    Scott
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
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    Redesigning the HUD is a good idea. I don't have anything to add as the proposals over at Elvas are good.

    Is it possible to have the option of removing the gradient info and projected speed from the Track monitor? Having them displayed has always felt like cheating a bit.
    Borislav
    https://www.trainsim.com/vbts/signaturepics/sigpic100353_2.gif

  3. #3
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    While I agree that projected speed is not really required, I feel that the gradient info should remain in the track monitor. A real world engineer would have spent a long time building up route knowledge with regard to grade locations and severity. Us mere mortals don't have the time to do that. If you don't like it, turn the monitor off.
    Beer is not a matter of life or death, it is much more serious than that.

  4. #4
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    Hi Folks,

    Yep - agree with Borislav on the "Projected Speed" - I find I use that as a crutch - big time - myself and it probably should go...

    I agree with Baldwin on "Gradient" - that is needed as stated - in addition we don't have seat of your pants feel and ORTS doesn't really indicate grades very well - it's often hard to look ahead and determine which way the grade is going - I think that is needed on the Track Monitor...

    Regards,
    Scott

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by =FI=Ghost View Post
    Redesigning the HUD is a good idea. I don't have anything to add as the proposals over at Elvas are good.

    Is it possible to have the option of removing the gradient info and projected speed from the Track monitor? Having them displayed has always felt like cheating a bit.
    I agree that most of the ideas are pretty good in the ET thread, but I always used the projected speed as a bit of a substitute for being able to feel what's going on in the train. So I do think there's a legitimate use for it, especially if you're not familiar with a route

  6. #6
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    Agreed.
    It's a good substitute for the "seat of the pants" feeling of speeding up or slowing down.

    Randy

  7. #7
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    Since guys over there at Elvas talk about several options for the HUD display, I thought they could do the same with the Track Monitor. That way we could choose which part of the TM we want or don't want to see/use on the go.
    Borislav
    https://www.trainsim.com/vbts/signaturepics/sigpic100353_2.gif

  8. #8

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    How hard would it be to make the HUD user configurable as to what parameters to keep or delete?...

  9. #9
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    Will it ever be possible for ORTS to have its own Cab/HUD editor so we can go beyond an add new parameters to cabs etc? I sure would like to be able to change around the Track Monitor an add to cab displays especially 3D cabs.

    Projected Speed as well as projected distance is used in the real world to monitor performance now a days.

  10. #10
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    Hi Folks,

    The customization and blanking have been brought up on the ET thread...

    All I am doing is making suggestions to the developer - I have no say beyond stating my own personal opinion which I also support by documenting it as thoroughly as possible (which I hope makes it easier for the developer as well)... This is all intended for peer review and to foster discussion to hopefully improve the final product for all of us...



    Proposed Diesel HUD:
    HUD_Diesel_2 by Scott, on Flickr


    Proposed Steam HUD:
    HUD_Steam_2 by Scott, on Flickr


    Proposed Electric HUD:
    HUD_Electric_2 by Scott, on Flickr


    The Magenta Tags on the labels are to highlight Control Confirmations - illuminated only during actual control movement and a short period thereafter...



    Now - the following is a result of the conversation on here... As mentioned - we're not actually sitting in anything that moves - so we should have a few crutches to compensate for the lack of feelings... In my above examples - I included a new indicator on the "SPED" line of all three HUDs - an accelerometer - ideally - this should be a substitute for the feeling you get as the locomotive accelerates or decelerates... I believe this type of indicator (display a graphic) is used in the Track Monitor so theoretically it should be possible... I can do graphics for whatever is needed... The values are subject to change but the following is to give you the gist of how the indicator would work... Ultimately - for locomotives that can't calculate "Projected Speed" - - - this could be a substitute for that value - as this is information you shouldn't really know as an engineer...

    HUD_Accel_2 by Scott, on Flickr



    The following is a similar gauge just for the Steam guys and is on the "BOLS" line of the Steam HUD example... I'd suggest we remove the current line "Steam Usage" that color codes a surplus or deficit in the existing F5 HUD - and replace it with this indicator... As someone who drives steam locomotives all the time - I really don't even notice the actual numbers for "Steam Usage" (which I shouldn't know) - as I rely strictly on the colors of the text to know if I am in a surplus or deficit condition... I've spoken with Peter before on this and I can see how this cheat makes it a bit easier to manage the boiler... Again - the values are subject to change but the following is to give you the gist of how the indicator would work... The values to drive this indicator are probably already contained in the existing F5 HUD "Steam Usage" value that changes the line color...

    HUD_Stem_2 by Scott, on Flickr

    Abbreviations:
    Code:
    ===ELECTRIC===
    TIME = Time 
    SPED = Speed
    DIRC = Direction
    THRO = Throttle 
    BTRN = Brake Train
    BLOC = Brake Locomotive
    BDYN = Brake Dynamic
    PANT = Pantographs
    CIRC = Circuit Breakers
    POWR = Power
    SAND = Sander
    
    ===STEAM===
    TIME = Time 
    SPED = Speed
    REVR = Reverser
    REGL = Regulator
    BTRN = Brake Train
    BLOC = Brake Locomotive
    STEM = Steam Usage
    BOLS = Boiler Steam Pressure
    BOLW = Boiler Water Level
    FUEL = Fuel (F=Fuel) (W=Water)
    CCOK = Cylinder Cocks
    SAND = Sander
    
    ===DIESEL===
    TIME = Time 
    SPED = Speed
    DIRC = Direction
    THRO = Throttle 
    BTRN = Brake Train
    BLOC = Brake Locomotive
    BDYN = Brake Dynamic
    SAND = Sander
    ENGN = Engine
    FUEL = Fuel
    
    ===BRAKE VALUES===
    Rel = Release
    RlQ = Release Quick
    App = Apply
    ApQ = Apply Quick
    ApS = Apply Slow
    Srv = Service
    Lap = Lap Self
    Lap = Lap
    Run = Running
    Emg = Emergency
    FOT  = Front of Train
    EOT  = End of Train
    BP   = Brake Pipe
    BC   = Brake Cylinder
    EQ   = Equalized

    Regards,
    Scott
    Last edited by scottb613; 10-22-2019 at 01:07 PM.

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