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Thread: Trainsimulations CN Rual route doesn't make a lot of sense.

  1. #1
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    Default Trainsimulations CN Rual route doesn't make a lot of sense.

    I read with interest someone's post below talking about a new route from TS and of coarse the subject of Open Rails comes up. What doesn't make a lot of sense is: If OR is suppose to allow for more detail and eye candy in a route, WHY on earth would trainsimulations do (release) a route like CN Rual? I have it and have run it from, one end to the other. As stated elsewhere, the trees and vegetation are TOP NOTCH however....that's about it. To be a little blunt, this is really a boring route as there ARE no real towns or much at all in the way of switching opportunities. If Open Rails is suppose to do so much more, I'm curious as to why they picked this one.

  2. #2
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    It's Northern Ontario. Much like Mactier (North of the GTA anyway), its all trees and swamp. It's just the way it is in cottage country.
    Rory

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    Quote Originally Posted by tie View Post
    It's Northern Ontario. Much like Mactier (North of the GTA anyway), its all trees and swamp. It's just the way it is in cottage country.
    Yes, a lot of Canada is like this where the Rails were and are. Each to their own, but Routes that run through the American Desert Areas are much the same, not many towns or scenery except for sand. Out Mid-West here and in the USA it is miles and miles of Fields.

    You want scenery? NEC, Blue Comet, GTA, Niagara Corridor & Surfliner just to name a few.

  4. #4

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    Here's the challenge to route builders as I see it: Build a route with lots of industry, sidings, switching opportunities, etc. and make it look "right" with enough scenery objects--e.g., no "buildings in cow pastures," adequate details like street lights, etc., switchstands (what a concept), decent looking tracks, etc., etc.--and a lot of computers won't even run it, especially in MSTS. Two routes that I love to run that have most of those details are the latest version of Blackfoot and Northwest V6. They are great routes, but even in OR, running on my fairly decent computer, frame rates can crash to single digits in some very scenery-dense locations. My same computer would frequently crash trying to run the scenery-dense Horseshoe Curve in MSTS.

    The other issue is with activities. Complex routes require complex activities to be challenging and enjoyable, and hardly anyone is writing activities, anymore. OR essentially requires one to use Goku's TSRE Activity Editor to be able to incorporate OR-specific things into an activity, but the TSRE AE is essentially an incomplete and somewhat obtuse product. What works is much better than the MSTS AE, but it has a lot of counter-intuitive and not-ready-for-prime time "features" that can make it a pain to use.

    Much as I love OpenRails, if it is going to successfully supplant MSTS, the OR development team needs to get the AE fully functional NOW.

    In the meantime, I fully understand why route builders (especially payware vendors) aren't real thrilled about tackling complex, scenery-dense routes. I do like Ruel--with just a few added goodies (street lights and better night-lighting in the few town and yard areas, etc.)--it would be one of my favorite routes.

  5. #5
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    Feather River runs fine on my Win 7 machine and that is a very nice route with lots of scenery etc.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragtimer View Post
    Feather River runs fine on my Win 7 machine and that is a very nice route with lots of scenery etc.
    Feather River runs well on my computer, as well. It was very carefully designed back in the day when computers were much more limited than they are now.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by wwhall View Post
    the OR development team needs to get the AE fully functional NOW.
    I can't agree with this enough. I may be in a minority but I love creating activities and releasing what I can to the F/L. MSTS AE is what I've used up until upgrading my OS to Win 10 and having trouble to run the original Microsoft product. (from a previous thread, haven't touched it recently since I haven't attempted activity creation yet. Will try Goku's editor in the coming weeks so wish me luck! *crosses fingers*)

    EK

  8. #8
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    I agree, I also create a lot of Activities and use exclusively the original AE. I have not yet upgraded to Windows 10,and will not,but soon I will have to buy a new computer and then I will have no choice so I will have to learn Gokus' TSRE. I do use the Consist builder and find it hands above the old system. I tied to use Gokus' Activity Editor,but found it too complicated since I am so proficient on the MSTS Activity Editor. It is the old story of when you know something, change stinks! I also found the Tutorial for Gokus' a bit confusing. Several Tutorials that I have found on YouTube weren't much help either. However,the time is coming or has come when I will just have to have patience{and control my temper!!!!} and learn how to do it. I didn't think I would ever learn the MSTS Activity Editor either,but eventually pulled it off. If anybody can send out tips in how to use TSRE Activity Editor without being too technical,I and a lot of people would appreciate it. Brian

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by trainman_47 View Post
    ......If OR is suppose to allow for more detail and eye candy in a route, WHY on earth would trainsimulations do (release) a route like CN Rual? I have it and have run it from, one end to the other. As stated elsewhere, the trees and vegetation are TOP NOTCH however....that's about it. To be a little blunt, this is really a boring route as there ARE no real towns or much at all in the way of switching opportunities. If Open Rails is suppose to do so much more, I'm curious as to why they picked this one.
    I'm with you on that. Of course we realise that much of the "Mid West" in ALL of North America is pretty sparsely populated and the distances covered by transcontinental Railroads are vast. It doesn't make for very interesting driving though? When you look at the level of detail that some of the current route authors have achieved in more densely sceneried and populated areas you have to ask why folk are still churning out these routes from nowhere, to nowhere, through nowhere. We all (anyone with a basic education) know they're prototypical but that doesn't make them worth simulating?

    Of course we have to remember that "pioneers" in any field were only able to produce stuff within the limitations of the time they produced it? MLT made some excellent routes long before OR (or indeed anything other than Trainz) existed as an alternative. Many freeware routes that pushed the envelope at the time of their release just crashed many folks machines

    However when you look at "state of the art" routes and the level of detail that's being achieved you have to ask why would anyone choose to model another "desert", plains or forest route running hundreds of miles through nowhere? Some of the most interesting routes were modeled by MLT and freeware contributors well over a decade ago now. Great locations but frankly well in need of an update. This isn't to trash the early efforts, they were top notch at the time of their release, but merely to point out that many could be done with much greater levels of scenery and detail and run perfectly well on today's machines. Specs are up and prices are down on hardware compared to 18 years ago when MSTS was released.

    Most of MLT's routes are really old now and the scenery level is, to say the least, sparse. The NEC's makeovers were great but again look thin compared with newer routes. If we look to the NE USA there are still major routes that nobody ever attempted to model? Major Railroads with dozens of excellent models of their stock but no routes to run on?

    Of course Trainsimulations are pretty much a modern era modeler and that in itself may dictate the routes that support their models but with the only major frequent passenger traffic in North America running between major towns and cities there's plenty that could still be modeled or improved.
    Geoff
    Dorset - near The Swanage Railway.
    UK

  10. #10

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    I personally enjoy running "remote" routes, in part because that the kind of place in which I live and where I both have railfanned and worked in the railroad industry. That said, even some of those routes are lacking in even basic prototypical details. The statement is absolutely correct that a lot of the older MLT (and SLI) routes were pretty awesome for their era, but look pretty sparse and stale now. The sad part is that many freeware and, yes, some payware providers are still using a lot of those old, primitive scenery objects in new routes.

    There are routes that really are authentic looking--Horseshoe and Blackfoot 3 are two freeware examples, just to name two. I salivate every time I see the screenies for the new, probably never to be released ( ) version of Northwest Line, as well as what I hope is soon to be released Mullan Pass.

    One of the cool things about OR is its much more realistic physics--especially if one uses OR-specific physics in the locos and cars. Running a mountain route such as Soldier Summit (and I know several conductors and engineers who ran on the prototype in "real life") or the upcoming Mullan Pass can really add to the interest of running over a route "out in the boondocks." I hope that the OR development team will tackle things like being able to "build the fence" and allow a simmer to separately control the lead loco set and the DP sets, as is often necessary in real-world DP operation on mountain grades.

    One other note about dense "switching" type routes: what often limits them is that the combination of dense scenery plus a lot of loose consists and AI trains can bring even pretty decent computers down to their knees, even in OR. Not much fun running an activity on some of those routes when the yards have to be pretty much left empty to keep from crashing the PC.

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