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Thread: running MSTS and Protrain etc - how do i get it to start - do i need a no-cd?

  1. #31
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    copy paste the msts folder to make alternate versions into which to install things is the way to go in MSTS. There will only be one set of registry entries that point to the original installation, but this can be changed using Route Riter.

    There is no fixed limit on anything except the grand total of items that MSTS needs to read into its reserved memory block before giving you access to the choices screen.

    OR is a far more complex program now than MSTS and rewards those who take time to study and apply the various parameters that can be used. Real world railroaders do not set out to derail or anything but accidents do happen. The OR management team took the decision long ago that these kinds of thing would not be part of the OR experience.

    Derailments can be turned off in MSTS anyway which is/was the preferred method of playing the game for many of us. The challenge lays in getting an activity completed without incurring penalties in the activity complete window, and completing it on time.
    Beer is not a matter of life or death, it is much more serious than that.

  2. #32
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    Thanks for that info, yes that description of OR is what I mean in that it is a different type of experience, and one that I think serves well with protrain, but for me for some other activities it takes away the element of danger and appeal - activities where one has to navigate a windy or steel route - Msts though itself as I have learnt is on the other hand too sensitive - I am happy to use both

  3. #33
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    In both games, it is all about train handling. MSTS has a distance/curve math problem that manifests itself as something known as the Cutbank syndrome. At a certain distance couplers will part when crossing a node making it impossible to complete an activity with normal strength couplers. They have to be heavily increased in strength to get through these nodes. Some later routes have dummy switches placed to reduce the distance between nodes.

    Open Rails on the other hand has no such math problem, and couplers can be set to proper real world strengths. That makes it a challenge to get a train moving and complete an activity without breaking a coupler which is the most common form of accident on the worlds railroads. If current ideas come to fruition this will become even harder with the introduction of true "slack action" of couplers between cars.
    Beer is not a matter of life or death, it is much more serious than that.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldwin View Post
    In both games, it is all about train handling. MSTS has a distance/curve math problem that manifests itself as something known as the Cutbank syndrome. At a certain distance couplers will part when crossing a node making it impossible to complete an activity with normal strength couplers. They have to be heavily increased in strength to get through these nodes. Some later routes have dummy switches placed to reduce the distance between nodes.

    Open Rails on the other hand has no such math problem, and couplers can be set to proper real world strengths. That makes it a challenge to get a train moving and complete an activity without breaking a coupler which is the most common form of accident on the worlds railroads. If current ideas come to fruition this will become even harder with the introduction of true "slack action" of couplers between cars.
    ah thats interesting as handling a train in regards to trying to do so without couplers breaking interests me - i just havent seen that happen yet in either MSTS or OR - perhaps because i have only started playing them recently and much of my time has been with just trying to figure out how to get things working and then i did have things working but then Protrain stopped working after i installed teh Trainsimulations Payware MSTS stuff (i am convinced that installing MSTSBin as part of that product is what broke protrain) -when i get the time proper to reinstall everything again i would like to do some activities that involved dealing witht his

  5. #35
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    The Protrain payware stuff was about maximizing the native MSTS program environment. It was successful largely due to the short, fast European trainsets involved that the brand was based on.

    MSTS Bin is an unofficial hack of the MSTS Train.exe file to expand features. Since then other payware vendors started producing content that requires MSTS Bin. Their ENG files are written with certain Bin-only features that causes MSTS to error upon loading when Bin is not present.

    Short light fast european trains aren't my thing, so I cant vouch for how well the Protrain series runs under Bin. But this battle over environmental needs and conditions are why most people moved on to Open Rails. If you want to stay back and go down the rabbit hole of attempting some form of harmony between european (pre-Bin) and north american (post-Bin) vendors over a 20 year old application, be my guest, but don't expect much support from those who have moved on to precisely avoid such time wasting.

    As for coupler breaks, the first few Trainsimulations trainsets made for Open Rails had some 'misguided' coupler break settings that made it very easy to break the couplers on the train when running Open Rails. Starting the train on a 0.5% grade or greater and simply applying power above the 5th notch would cause a train separation somewhere near the front. The CSX C40-8W ethanol trainset pack was one of those notorious trainsets that had coupler break values that were a bit too weak. We know this because we have been around long before last month and most of us dealt with it back when these sets were new. Just one of those knowledge assets that comes from sufficient time in the cab seat.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by geepster775 View Post
    The Protrain payware stuff was about maximizing the native MSTS program environment. It was successful largely due to the short, fast European trainsets involved that the brand was based on.

    MSTS Bin is an unofficial hack of the MSTS Train.exe file to expand features. Since then other payware vendors started producing content that requires MSTS Bin. Their ENG files are written with certain Bin-only features that causes MSTS to error upon loading when Bin is not present.

    Short light fast european trains aren't my thing, so I cant vouch for how well the Protrain series runs under Bin. But this battle over environmental needs and conditions are why most people moved on to Open Rails. If you want to stay back and go down the rabbit hole of attempting some form of harmony between european (pre-Bin) and north american (post-Bin) vendors over a 20 year old application, be my guest, but don't expect much support from those who have moved on to precisely avoid such time wasting.

    As for coupler breaks, the first few Trainsimulations trainsets made for Open Rails had some 'misguided' coupler break settings that made it very easy to break the couplers on the train when running Open Rails. Starting the train on a 0.5% grade or greater and simply applying power above the 5th notch would cause a train separation somewhere near the front. The CSX C40-8W ethanol trainset pack was one of those notorious trainsets that had coupler break values that were a bit too weak. We know this because we have been around long before last month and most of us dealt with it back when these sets were new. Just one of those knowledge assets that comes from sufficient time in the cab seat.
    thanks for the coupler information

    also i am not expecting anyone else to be doing what i am doing - i have a peculiar like for older iterations of games and also i like the satisfaction of getting old games working on new systems - again i dont expect many others to share this quirk.

    i am happy to use OR and will do so for everything ultimately i think, but for now i am just going to get some MSTS stuff going, and i will go with have two versions of msts - one for the protrain stuff and the other that will be for the trainsimulations stuff

    just one other question - what exactly is the consist limit for MSTS - there are a bunch of "german railroad" addons i have ordered as well as some britiish line addes from first class simulations

  7. #37
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    As for some ORTS physics fun, how about a bottled air runaway?

    Train stalled on a 2.1% grade, power cuts away to add more engines, but the rookie conductor mistakenly bottles the air on the cars before the pin is pulled. The railcars promptly run away backwards.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj5A...ature=youtu.be

    The engines give chase only to show the speeds of the runaway cut approaching 90 mph. Would a cut of cars successfully navigate sharp curves at that speed? Who knows. But it wont derail in open rails due to excessive speed. Even if I threw a switch behind the runaway and diverted it into a stub-end siding, as would be the common real-world response, it just comes to an abrupt stop without derailing.

  8. #38
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    i was just wondering if OR simulates runaways and so you answered my question - i guess at this point i would just regard the activity attempt a failure if i had such a runaway.

    what is the map this is take place on - it looks great

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