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Thread: The elephant in the room?

  1. #11
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    I would love to see more automation. I believe John had already liked the idea of an AI hump. Honestly it wouldn't take too much more resources out of the system because every string in a hump rolling down is in fact an AI. But I'd go beyond that and have trains that were smart enough to switch yards and industries. It would take some programming logic but most of all resources.

    Of course resource issues is where I started this discussion from. Smaller regions wouldn't necessarily remove interaction. For example that Oakville Sub would have tons of interaction if allowed to function right (which it doesn't in TSW). For those familiar with it Aldershot Yard is a yard worked often by many passing mainline trains to and from Toronto (Halton Sub junction at Burlington West) & Sarnia (Dundas Sub junction at Bayview). If the AI functions I'd love to see where a part of it the trains would often be blocked with head end set offs for Aldershot for the Hamilton, Oakville, and Niagara areas. It could easily involve players as well for those looking at multiple short runs with work.

    But if you try that kind of automation in the current game engine it would cripple in dare I say one large route let alone a region. As far as my thoughts on MP many don't have as many requirements to enjoy the sim. Not only do many here I've seen enjoy single player and don't bother with MP, but others who used to enjoy the interaction of MP have found enough variety in managing their own worlds with AI to not require MP. Could be a factor why you see far less servers then what we once had.

    Anyways I'm glad this is turning into a positive debate. This was exactly the kind of discussion I was hoping to see. Run8 is still the best in my book, and has given me years of entertainment. But it's starting to show it's age for me now, and really nothing else has stepped up to challenge it in my opinion.

    Thanks

    Sean

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by metalangel View Post
    That doesn't overcome anything, it'll all be waiting just as before when you come back......
    So what?
    If a Pause feature provides a temporary halt on all the action and allows the soloist to operate switches, set up the despatching of traffic and spawning and to undertake any other tasks that are too much of a hassle whilst also in the cab of a locomotive, that's all that this little black duck desires.

    To each, his own.
    IBM XT i386; 512Kb RAM; 5.25" FDD; 1.4Mb FDD; 5Mb HDD; VGA 256-colour graphics card; AdLib soundcard; DR DOS 6.0; Windows 3.0

  3. #13
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    On Flight Sim I frequently pause while making a tricky approach, to set up the ILS frequency or double check an ATC instruction. Don't forget, with sims you are frequently doing jobs that in real life would be undertaken by several people. It's a couple of years now since I played Run 8 but I have a sneaky recollection you can't operate the despatcher board while the game is paused. As it is, not only are you driving your train but you are also looking after an area that several signallers would be overseeing IRL.
    Vern.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernWarrior View Post
    ..... I have a sneaky recollection you can't operate the despatcher board while the game is paused.....
    That's quite correct, Vern,......the reason why I suggested that a "pause feature...." would be a blessing for the single-player.
    IBM XT i386; 512Kb RAM; 5.25" FDD; 1.4Mb FDD; 5Mb HDD; VGA 256-colour graphics card; AdLib soundcard; DR DOS 6.0; Windows 3.0

  5. #15
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    The game needs more AI control, one player one job.

    Not all this multi tasking stuff, which is completely unrealistic.

    My Run8 files are on a couple of dvd's and that is where they will stay.

    Unless things change. I might have to consult my union rep over demarcation of labour.

    Mike.
    The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagoon View Post
    That's quite correct, Vern,......the reason why I suggested that a "pause feature...." would be a blessing for the single-player.
    Now I know what you meant by "pause", I agree that it should be an option! As it was, I was using the "ludicrous speed" movement toggle and dispatcher screen teleports to bounce around the place (not unlike that little black duck) trying to keep things moving. Running things over the hump was practically a break, as apart from setting signals in the dispatch screen, there was little else you could do for 20-30 minutes as the cars rolled up and over.

    @Sean MP can be very intimidating because you are afraid of messing up in front of others. There's also a small, unfortunate factor which is people who don't agree with the (legitimate) way you do things because it's not the exact way *they'd* do it, and will hassle you about it. Lastly, there is the insistence of many servers that you be on voice chat constantly, which some people either don't enjoy or outright cannot do (such as those who have small children sleeping or spouses watching TV or other issues that prevent using headsets).

  7. #17
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    Yeah you nailed it Metalangel. The voicechat requirement is a hosts right. I've always looked at is as an option but most people enjoy it so majority rules. I understand chat can seem unrealistic, but so can listening to the main channel and someone comes on and you hear.
    "Hey Curly"
    "Hey Larry"
    "Hey Moe"

    If the simulator had a function built in to allow voice to text, text to voice, and an integrated radio system I would be more supportive of it.
    But these external group voice chats have never been my thing. I think it's a great tool to teach people in the sim as I was taught by Dale on the phone when I was beta testing Run8.

    What we really need is more options as I've always said. That's not Run8's fault it's unfortunately the way things are. Improvements to single player and small groups would help resolve these issues. As for those that are happy with single player now, that is great for you. I understand I'm in the minority here. I always have been.

    But if you look at most model railroad clubs, those that want to operate in prototypical fashion are also a minority. This is where the term "divot counter" comes from.

    Thanks

    Sean
    Sean

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SurvivorSean View Post
    .....if you look at most model railroad clubs, those that want to operate in prototypical fashion are also a minority. This is where the term "divot counter" comes from.
    Wouldn't that term come from a golf club, Sean?
    I can't connect counting divots with model railroading.....certainly not down here, any way.
    IBM XT i386; 512Kb RAM; 5.25" FDD; 1.4Mb FDD; 5Mb HDD; VGA 256-colour graphics card; AdLib soundcard; DR DOS 6.0; Windows 3.0

  9. #19
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    Rivet boys, rivet counter.

    Mike.
    The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagoon View Post
    Other than lateness, the behaviour of other people is not really a factor in real life.
    Looking back to the birth of Run 8 and its predilection for online play it now appears obvious that it (multiplayer) has not been as popular as first thought.
    Thing is, Depot+ server participation is very much alive. Any given time there are at least two or three, but mostly double digit participation between the three regions. The sessions are robust and great fun. There is a purpose for every movement and always a variety of work to be done, including dispatching. A lot of these guys are railroaders (rails) in RL and most D+ members don't know this forum even exists. Point is, Run8 isn't for the masses. If there wasn't a V3, one more piece of rolling stock, or another mile of track added to the current routes, there is enough to keep a person looking for a true simulation of modern railroading busy for years. It's obvious the R8 dev's aren't in it for the money and they don't care how long it takes to put something out, so long as they get it right and there is a bunch of us out here that are just fine with that.

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