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Thread: North American railroad history - main questions

  1. #31

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    POTUS = President of the United States
    FLOTUS = First lady of the United States - in other words' the President's wife ("Lady Bird" Johnson was Lyndon Johnson's wife ... in the sixties)

    D. Carleton is a passenger expert in his own right. (Or is that his brother? I get a little mixed up between you too). The brother I am thinking of, I met on one of Iowa Pacific's dome cars that came to Vermont for a Vermont Rail Action Network train.

    Christopher

  2. #32
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    While I was searching the materials for my research, I was found some material about consist of Milwaukee Road train Pioneer Limited - http://www.railwayclassics.com/milw02.htm Can someone explain what is "Bunkroom coach"?

    Another question - among the various North American sleeping accomodations was very rare type of accomodation - "Chambrette", in the train Denver Zephyr was one sleeping car with 4 chambrettes and 4 roomettes, source is official CB&Q timetable: http://streamlinermemories.info/Zephyr/B51-5TT.pdf I would like to find information about chambrette.
    Vladislav

  3. #33
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    The following link goes to a page featuring an N scale model of one of the Milwaukee 'Bunkroom' cars. The numbers (4441 to 4448) follow on from the passenger cars built for the original Hiawatha service and have some seats which can be converted into 'bunks'for either passengers of crew members. Externally the cars are similar to the coach version but with a different window arrangement.

    https://www.trovestar.com/generic/zoom.php?id=126435

    The Burlington cars you mention had 4 Roomettes, 4 Chamberettes, 1 Drawing Room, 1 Compartment and 4 Double Bedrooms. The two cars were named 'Silver Slipper' and 'Silver Moon'. The link below shows a picture of the train from the rear, the car in question would be the one ahead of the tail end oservation. I would speculate that the Chamberette was similar to the smaller 'Roomettes' found in the post war Budd Slumbercoaches.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denver_Zephyr

    Perhaps sombody else might be able to come up with more information.
    onen hag oll!

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vazyuk View Post
    While I was searching the materials for my research, I was found some material about consist of Milwaukee Road train Pioneer Limited - http://www.railwayclassics.com/milw02.htm Can someone explain what is "Bunkroom coach"?
    That was a 56 seat coach with a dormitory area.

    Another question - among the various North American sleeping accomodations was very rare type of accomodation - "Chambrette", in the train Denver Zephyr was one sleeping car with 4 chambrettes and 4 roomettes, source is official CB&Q timetable: http://streamlinermemories.info/Zephyr/B51-5TT.pdf I would like to find information about chambrette.
    That was very similar to a regular Pullman Single Bedroom with one crosswise bunk that folded down from the wall, and one chair that folded down and could fit under the bunk. They were arraigned in pairs with a folding partition in between so that they could be sold "en-suite".

    So why not just call them 'Single Bedrooms' if that's what they essentially were? The Burlington was in a dispute with the Pullman Company as to whether Pullman should operate cars that were not provided by Pullman. The resulting legal imbroglio proved to be the beginning of the end of the Pullman Company!

  5. #35

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    I did not know either answer so I passed your question on.

    David Carlton (who is on this forum) said "The Milwaukee Road car was apparently a coach with a dormitory area."

    Carl Fowler said "A Chambrette was a large roomette, with a toilet that could be
    accessed with the bed down. Pullman (as opposed to Budd) called
    these single bedrooms. The 1936 DZ when expanded got one care in
    each set with Chambrette rooms."

    Both of these men are real authorities who know more than me about passenger rail in the US. David is author or co-author of a string of books. Carl ran the Rail Travel Center, running group rail tours all over the world. He is retired now but is on the Vermont Rail Council.

    Christopher

  6. #36
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    I know two big websites about streamliners (pre-Amtrak passenger trains) - streamlinermemories.com and streamlinermemories.info, but I remember another similar website about Amercan passenger trains, where was information about a large number of passenger trains and about many types of passenger cars. I cannot find this site, but I remember that background picture of this site was black. Maybe, this site no longer exist, but may be copies in WebArchive.
    Vladislav

  7. #37

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    You are thinking of this: http://passcarphotos.rypn.org/
    Christopher

  8. #38
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    Thanks for help, but it's a not this website. In passcarphotos.rypn.org is list of passenger cars with photos, but in website which i remember was big list of passenger trains and of pages about various types of passenger cars (Pleasure Dome, Pine seies and others).
    Vladislav

  9. #39

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    Here's one you may not have found yet....
    https://www.themetrains.com/main.html

  10. #40
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    Not yet mention is the legal framework railroads operated in which is pretty much a 20th century matter.

    Railroads were defined as common carriers: they had to treat each customer's needs the same as any other customer who had the same needs. So if customer 1 needed to ship toilet paper from point A to B the price charged would be the same for customer 2 who also needed to ship a carload of T.P. from point A to point B. In practical terms "point" was a fairly large area so I did not matter id customer 2 was some short distance away and his load traveled further. What the "distance away" actually was depending of where as well as when and was determined by the government.

    The idea of carloadings took care of variations in weight. A carload of refrigerators was a different weight than a carload of coal. Under that weight you paid less-than-carload charges (more expensive). Above that weight was priced as whatever the unit of weight was would be the same amount if you added some more of the same tot he load.

    As this related to passenger traffic, it was largely the same, tho prices and services could be ranked by quality.

    The problem for passenger train sis once they were announced it was exceedingly difficult to make the case the train was no longer economical and by the mid 50's hardly any passenger trains were profitable. The government kept insisting trains were a necessity and so the bleeding of cash continued until 1969 when the government final conceded the whole thing was not really viable as separate businesses.

    Of course the whole thing is still not viable under Amtrak. Billions of dollars have been wasted.

    Last thing, it was common for passenger trains to include cars that started on railroad A and would finish on railroad D. IOW, a car could start in New York City, transfer to another railroad in Washington DC, and transfer again Jacksonville Florida for the final journey to Miami. There were rules that defined how much of the ticket price was handed out to each of the participating railroads. This was probably based on mileage traveled. I don't know if the railroads A and D got a bit more.
    Last edited by muskokaandtahoe; 06-24-2021 at 10:12 PM.
    Dave Nelson

    Seldom visiting, posting less often that that.

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