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Thread: Southern Pacific Shasta Route - Development Thread

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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
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    Post Falls, ID
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    Default Southern Pacific Shasta Route - Development Thread

    Greetings all,

    For my next route project, I am pursuing Southern Pacific's Shasta Route, specifically the entirety of SP's Black Butte Subdivision between Dunsmuir, CA and Klamath Falls, OR set in the mid 1990's. To avoid any confusion right from the get go: this route will be payware through TrainSimulations, and is only in its beginning stages, so there is absolutely no timeline for completion yet. As of tonight, track is complete for about 75% of the route approximately, scenery just getting started. Loooong way to go.

    This route, like Mullan, will be designed specifically for Open Rails. Throughout my Mullan Pass project, I learned a lot and made plenty of mistakes, and I hope to capitalize on all that was learned to make this project a less bumpy ride, but only time will tell what ultimately happens.

    As a bit of an intro to the route: The route features a grueling, twisting 2.2% max mountain grade climb up out of Dunsmuir via Cantara Loop, an incredibly scenic section of the route that circles right around the base of the massive stratovolcano known as Mount Shasta, many miles twisting through the arid pine forests on the east side of the Cascades, some flat, high speed sprints across agricultural valleys, and two major yards (Dunsmuir and Klamath Falls). This route is mostly rural, and is one of the most scenic routes in the western United States.

    I chose the 1990's to focus in on the unique and exciting final years of Southern Pacific operations: A time when modern power like SD70M's and GP60's mingled with older tunnel motors and the like; the high priority PCX (Pacific Coast Express) intermodal trains and Swift Roadrailers ran on the I-5 Corridor; Dash 8-32BWH "Pepsi Cans" lead the Coast Starlight; sugar beet trains ran out of the Modoc Plateau and off the McCloud Railway heading for California; and much more.

    Just one screenshot for now, to kick off this project: Three GP60's storm up the grade between Andesite and Cougar with the eastbound Swift Roadrailers, with Mount Shasta dominating the background. (I can't figure out how to properly embed photos in the current forum software, so here is a direct link).

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/156798...in/dateposted/
    Attached Images Attached Images
    ~Sean Kelly~

    MRL Mullan Pass for ORTS
    https://www.trainsimulations.net/Pro...LLAN_ORTS.HTML

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    Doreen, Victoria, Australia.
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    6,761

    Default

    Thanks for letting us know, I will start saving. :-)

    As this is another Open Rails only route, can we move away from the MSTS "adhesion factor correction" 130%.
    We need to get more accurate with all of our settings.
    Cheers
    Derek

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
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    Post Falls, ID
    Posts
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    Quote Originally Posted by derekmorton View Post
    Thanks for letting us know, I will start saving. :-)

    As this is another Open Rails only route, can we move away from the MSTS "adhesion factor correction" 130%.
    We need to get more accurate with all of our settings.
    Hi Derek,

    There's actually an interesting reason for that 130% factor for Mullan. I had long felt that the adhesion physics in Open Rails during rain and snowfall were wrong. About 2 months ago, I collaborated with Peter Newell to test out these physics against real world tests performed by Norfolk Southern, and those tests seemed to confirm my suspicions. Peter then modified the adhesion factors for snow and rain to better align with the NS test data.

    All of the ENG files developed for Mullan were developed as close to reality as possible, including for adhesion, horsepower, tractive effort, etc. But since we designed Mullan for the Stable version of Open Rails, we had to ensure that the activities would still function in the Stable version, which of course would be long before Peter's adhesion updates were made to the code.

    Long story short, if you run with the Mullan locomotives in one of the latest experimental versions of OR with the adhesion correction set to 100%, you should experience very close to reality as far as physics performance, now that the rain and snow coefficients have been modified. But if you try to run at 100% adhesion factor on the Stable version of OR in rain or snow, you are going to have problems with excessive wheelslip due to the incorrect adhesion code. But I must caution that ALL of our activity testing on Mullan was performed using the Stable version in order to reach the largest number of users, so we cannot guarantee that you will not run into any other issues while running experimental versions of OR.

    Hope that makes sense, feel free to PM me any other physics questions you have.
    ~Sean Kelly~

    MRL Mullan Pass for ORTS
    https://www.trainsimulations.net/Pro...LLAN_ORTS.HTML

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    44

    Default

    Looks like I've picked the right time to get back in to Open Rails! Mullan really blew my mind, and if we can get more of that, I'll be plenty pleased.

    RE Adhesion: I've been making a physics mod thing to bring some older stuff up to sorta the same standard as Mullan and OR Seligman (but also using Gerry's loco physics + some custom dynamic brake physics of my own). Something I noticed in this process is that the adhesion factor correction actually affects brake friction when brake shoe friction curves are at play, so running at the recommended 130% actually leads to stronger braking than running at the more realistic setting of 100%.

    That got me wondering-how do you guys choose brake force numbers? Are they designed for 130% adhesion or would they still be reasonable for 100% adhesion? I'm running on 100%, and I'd like to know if that's making my brakes too weak. I've yet to do significant play testing, so I could very well have set up my content to make for uncontrollable trains.
    But does it have field shunts?

  5. #5

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    beautiful - and interesting terrain

  6. #6
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    Nov 1999
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    Doreen, Victoria, Australia.
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    >Hope that makes sense, feel free to PM me any other physics questions you have.

    Thanks Sean, that makes a lot of sense.
    I always run the latest unstable and 100% and have not had a problem.
    Cheers
    Derek

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Metairie, Louisiana
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    782

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    A Western Railroad, in the 1990s? I'm saving up some cash from my new job building a online store to buy this.

    This is probably the best news I've heard all day! Thank you Sean. This will be a must-buy, and it's looking great so far. What you've said in the description are my favorite parts of 90s era Western Railroading.

    Give us more! Need to finish locomotive upgrade for Cascades Crossing.
    Last edited by SD40-2; 04-23-2020 at 05:43 PM.

    Parker B. - A Misplaced Midwesterner.
    Also known as Mr. Two Bits and Mr. Squarewheels.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    1,026

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    Sean, you inspired me to start working on my routes again. Even though Mullan crashes a lot because my computer isn't the best at crunching the game correctly, I still enjoy it very much, and it's hard to go back to any route older.

    Looking forward to this, especially the continuation from Klamath Falls. Now I can run an SP train from Eugune straight through onto this up and coming route!
    https://i.imgur.com/LPZNEX4.png

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    Chippenham, Wiltshire, UK.
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    Quote Originally Posted by derekmorton View Post
    Thanks for letting us know, I will start saving. :-)

    As this is another Open Rails only route, can we move away from the MSTS "adhesion factor correction" 130%.
    We need to get more accurate with all of our settings.
    I have been using 100% since it became available on the Options/Experimental tab.
    Beer is not a matter of life or death, it is much more serious than that.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Post Falls, ID
    Posts
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    Thank you all for the comments. As mentioned before, still a long way to go but slowly things are starting to take shape. Goal is to meet or exceed Mullan in terms of graphics quality.

    At this point, we now have the main track laid all the way from Klamath Falls to Dunsmuir, and I am gradually working on the yards and sidings. Sidings are taking a little bit longer than normal to lay track for because SP had this habit of having the track swing out and back a few feet at the ends of sidings to allow room for a signal (and in some cases a water spout in steam days) in between the main track and the siding.

    The results of my first couple hours of working on scenery in the river canyon section of the route. A very heavy westbound EUWCM descends the 2.2% grade in the upper Sacramento River Canyon near Shasta Retreat, a few miles north (railroad east) of Dunsmuir.
    Open Rails 2020-08-13 08-59-21 by Sean Kelly, on Flickr
    ~Sean Kelly~

    MRL Mullan Pass for ORTS
    https://www.trainsimulations.net/Pro...LLAN_ORTS.HTML

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