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Thread: A suggestion about ORTS routes

  1. #1
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    Cool A suggestion about ORTS routes

    Colleagues,

    I got a email from someone today who had downloaded my MCOA2_v2 route which, in the instructions, has a
    comment to the effect that it may not run in MSTS but likely requires ORTS.

    Problem was that the lad did not have a copy of MSTS installed but apparently was running ORTS only
    routes okay.

    In preparing this route for distribution, I had used RouteRiter for compression and this involves removing
    anything found in default routes and providing a installme.bat file to replace those. Problem is, it only
    works if you have the default routes.

    So, in the future, I intend to compress a route, and then copy back in, items from the default routes and
    then issue the route. I would guess that others should also do this if a route is ORTS only. Once the
    default items are back in the route, it should be tested in ORTS to be sure all required is present.

    J. H. Sullivan

  2. #2
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    Default

    Jerry,

    The issue might be with the copyright on the Kuju/MS shapes and textures from MSTS though.

    We might have to work on building replacement objects and textures that the community can put into a package for the community to use in place of the old default MSTS content.

    Robert

  3. #3
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    Cool

    Robert,

    If it is, then a lot of us are going to need to "Lawyer up". Remember that even the track pieces are
    a MSTS/KUJU product although many different textures have been provided. No, if copyright were an
    issue, we would no longer be able to provide either payware or freeware routes. MS has not produced
    any "game" software in more than a decade now, so I expect they could care less. Meanwhile KUJU
    has changed their name and moved on to train simulation, using a different file structure, etc. etc.
    than MSTS. I would have changed to RailWorks nearly a decade ago, and did create a short route
    for my own use, in a territory I was familiar with (Clifton Forge - Hinton) but the train & engine
    physics did not "feel" right. I suspect that RailWorks probably was based on European equipment
    physics. For all it's silly flaws, MSTS behaves correctly when activities are run.

    Jerry Sullivan

  4. #4
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    Bad idea. The legacy installme.bat procedure was always to 1) reduce the size of freeware routes, and 2) avoid illegal distribution of copyrighted software - the original MSTS content.

    The risk is for website owners, for Nels, not for us trainsim hobbyists. If the trainsim.com download library or other sites offer unauthorized distribution of copyrighted material, yes, there could be consequences because it would be so flagrant. A for-profit business can't play fast and loose like you can on your pc at home.
    - FTLDave

    "Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing." - Wernher von Braun


    "A software suggestion is not a valid answer to a configuration/troubleshooting question." - Timelmer

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ftldave View Post
    Bad idea. The legacy installme.bat procedure was always to 1) reduce the size of freeware routes, and 2) avoid illegal distribution of copyrighted software - the original MSTS content.

    The risk is for website owners, for Nels, not for us trainsim hobbyists. If the trainsim.com download library or other sites offer unauthorized distribution of copyrighted material, yes, there could be consequences because it would be so flagrant. A for-profit business can't play fast and loose like you can on your pc at home.
    Agreed, even though we may consider MSTS "abandon ware" Microsoft might be obliged to defend against any copyright violations so as to not erode their brand. On the other hand...if an exception were to be granted by Microsoft to the community?? But would other interested parties ( like KUJU or whatever they are now ) go along with it?
    Cheers, R. Steele [Gerry] It's my railroad and I'll do what I want! Historically accurate attitude of US Railroad Barons.


  6. #6
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    I never thought about this aspect but ftldave poses an interesting point. If a route is distributed
    without default material except the track and I believe MS did provide some information about
    that, then a user could not use the route UNLESS he had his own copy of MSTS installed on his
    system. Except for bridges, I am not a very good object creator, but the time may be coming
    when we do need to provide replacements for default material. There is a lot of material in the
    library (and that of several other sites) that we may already have enough.

    J. H. Sullivan

  7. #7
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    Default

    The route would still be usable in ORTS as it will continue to run with missing shapes and textures. The user will just have a rather large log file full of errors and/or warnings.
    Beer is not a matter of life or death, it is much more serious than that.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by landnrailroader View Post
    I never thought about this aspect but ftldave poses an interesting point. If a route is distributed
    without default material except the track and I believe MS did provide some information about
    that, then a user could not use the route UNLESS he had his own copy of MSTS installed on his
    system. Except for bridges, I am not a very good object creator, but the time may be coming
    when we do need to provide replacements for default material. There is a lot of material in the
    library (and that of several other sites) that we may already have enough
    . J. H. Sullivan
    my emphasis

    There is probably some good stuff in the library, however, graphics are only going to improve with OR, besides there may be new file formats coming for OR ( there has been discussion on both fronts )...a very useful community project would be to craft a set or ORTS quality generic objects for route building and make them available to the community. Perhaps using the same naming conventions as found in the originals so they can be easily substituted in older routes ( am I blowing smoke...or is that possible?).
    Cheers, R. Steele [Gerry] It's my railroad and I'll do what I want! Historically accurate attitude of US Railroad Barons.


  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Steele View Post
    my emphasis

    There is probably some good stuff in the library, however, graphics are only going to improve with OR, besides there may be new file formats coming for OR ( there has been discussion on both fronts )...a very useful community project would be to craft a set or ORTS quality generic objects for route building and make them available to the community. Perhaps using the same naming conventions as found in the originals so they can be easily substituted in older routes ( am I blowing smoke...or is that possible?).
    It's possible, in fact it's a pretty great idea to finally be done with that old MSTS content once and for all, but where are you going to find the modellers for it? I'm willing to donate any shapes of mine that will work, and there are probably some shapes out there already that could fill some of the gaps, but that will still leave quite a bit of work to be done

  10. #10
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    Not only a lot of work, but if new file types come along for shapes in ORTS, then we have another problem. For now, TSM does a decent job and once you get the hang of it, it is easy to use. There is also 3DCanvas or whatever it was eventually called, but a shape file creator would be needed for new file types, or perhaps a converter utility.

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