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Thread: Mullan Pass Problem

  1. #1
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    Default Mullan Pass Problem

    Prompted by the offer of 30% off I decided to splash out on Mullan Pass. NOT my era at all.... but it WAS a Northern Pacific route so even if the anticipated miles long AC lash ups didn't appeal I was interested in (1) the route itself, and (2) the fact that it is an Open Rails Only route.

    Purchase download and install went seamlessly so decided to run an activity to check out the route. All the consists were as I feared massive trains so rather than run light engine I bit the bullet and set about creating a consist in TSRE.

    The latter was a learning curve and the lack of a tutorial was not great. Anyway finally lashed up the two GP9 switchers and created a consist of 10 of the MT boxcars in the stock pack, rounded off with the single caboose. Long story short. Got to a section, straight as a die with a 0.9% incline and watched in disbelief as the train gradually ground to a halt.

    Decided to have another try and set a start point in a yard somewhere in the middle of the route. When the start loaded I noticed I was on a 0.4% incline. When I tried to start the whole consist, even with sander going, refused to budge (and yes of course the brakes were showing as released) and the whole shabang began to roll backwards down this gentle incline whatever I did with the power.

    NOW I'm quite prepared to accept I may have done something wrong ....but surely 3000HP of GP9 can haul 10 empty boxcars on a less than 1% incline and start them 0.4%???

    BTW using latest version (prompted to update when I ran OR) and happy to check any setting that may have caused this ….bearing in mind that I haven’t changed these since running other MSTS routes with few problems.
    Geoff
    Dorset - near The Swanage Railway.
    UK

  2. #2
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    Geoff,you might prefer the freeware RMD East route (search rmd and it appears on page 1).You get the Milwaukee,Great Northern and MRL all in one...free.I have a great DVD of this portion of the MRL,just love that gas train.
    The longest train I have seen going over Mullan pass (on my other MRL DVD) is approx 100 cars.If only it was for MSTS,I would have bought it by now but OR=no sale.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragtimer View Post
    Geoff,you might prefer the freeware RMD East route (search rmd and it appears on page 1).You get the Milwaukee,Great Northern and MRL all in one...free.I have a great DVD of this portion of the MRL,just love that gas train.
    The longest train I have seen going over Mullan pass (on my other MRL DVD) is approx 100 cars.If only it was for MSTS,I would have bought it by now but OR=no sale.
    Hi Peter, already one of my favourite routes! I use OR now for most Nth American routes and have few problems with it. The bugs are being ironed out slowly but surely. My interest was peaked by two things really, point 2 in my original post and because I did some research on the route in Northern Pacific days. There are actually a lot of pictures of NP trains at points featured in this route and for those of us interested in earlier eras BLW do quite a few pack with NP stock.

    My tryouts from both ends and somewhere mid way showed reasonable scenery depth (if a little modern for the years NP was still running ...I bow to local knowledge on that obviously) and I was interested to see how the stock performed too. I was into FSX so the new textures that OR supports were also of interest ...more of that later.

    You have little choice but to use TSRE for this route (again I stand to be corrected) and it is BADLY lacking some very BASIC instructions on the Consist Editor. ALL help files on this bring up 404 web sites and yet it seems to have some quite advanced features. A check online for a YouTube "how to..." video was not great as the results were... Well Google it yourself.

    Somewhere? either in TSRE, the physics in the TS stock pack or in OR itself there HAS to be an issue if 3000HP can't haul 10 empty box cars without stalling?
    Geoff
    Dorset - near The Swanage Railway.
    UK

  4. #4
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    I took the existing 13 car Montana City local consist and added a 2nd GP9, had 4 mt box, 2 ld box, 4 ld centerbeams, 2 ld covered hoppers and 1 ld gon for 1600+ US tons. Departed Helena Jct, made 35 mph on the downgrades, held at 13 mph on 1.9% and held at 10 mph on 2.2% at east switch Austin

    Edit: Current unstable build here
    Last edited by geepster775; 05-23-2020 at 07:56 PM.

  5. #5
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    Hi Geoff,

    When I did the physics for the engines for Mullan, I took great care to assure accurate tractive effort for all locomotives. It is my opinion that these engines have the most realistic physics offered in any TrainSimulations product thus far. I just did a quick test with the two MRL GP9's and 10 loaded boxcars on the 2.2% east slope of Mullan Pass, and easily started pulling upgrade from a stop just fine.

    As you hopefully saw in the Mullan Pass manual, the route was designed and tested in the stable version of OR. If you ever find peculiar performance in an OR unstable version, I would recommend first running it in the stable version to see if you get similar results. Without further information, it is likely an error with the unstable version you are running.

    Geoff, maybe you've already seen it, but a GREAT resource for seeing typical NP power and trains is the Ron Nixon collection, viewable here. http://www.morphotoarchive.org/rvndb/
    I like to use the search by location on the left of the screen, and choose locations along the NP main through Montana. Common late-era NP (late 1960's) power on this route included U25C's, U33C's, SD45's, GP9's, F units, etc.

    Mullan Pass is set in the past 2 or 3 years, during which loaded coal trains routinely run 125+ cars. Not unheard of for coal trains to run a few cars longer than that. BNSF has also really ramped up the number of doubled-up empty unit trains, which means regular 230ish car eastbound trains (there is an activity for one of these in the route).

    Also, as far as the RMD routes go: They cover the NP from Garrison to Paradise, Montana, but they do not cover east of Garrison, which is where Mullan Pass proper is located.
    ~Sean Kelly~

    MRL Mullan Pass for ORTS
    https://www.trainsimulations.net/Pro...LLAN_ORTS.HTML

  6. #6
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    >Somewhere? either in TSRE, the physics in the TS stock pack or in OR itself there HAS to be an issue if 3000HP can't haul 10 empty box cars without stalling?

    There is nothing wrong with Open Rails physics.
    There is nothing wrong with Mullan physics.

    It sounds like you had the reverser in neutral?
    Cheers
    Derek

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by lateagain View Post
    ...I bit the bullet and set about creating a consist in TSRE.

    The latter was a learning curve and the lack of a tutorial was not great....
    Geoff, there is an excellent TSRE manual that Pete Willard put together at GitHub, it has section on the Consist Editor at the end...the manual is still a work in progress, Pete is looking for help. see this thread >>> https://www.trainsim.com/vbts/showth...-to-open-rails post #19, Goku even thinks it's the best he has seen --- post#17

    GitHub TSRE Manual Link >>> https://github.com/pwillard/TSRE5-Do...aster/book.pdf
    Cheers, R. Steele [Gerry] It's my railroad and I'll do what I want! Historically accurate attitude of US Railroad Barons.


  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by PerryPlatypus View Post
    Hi Geoff,
    When I did the physics for the engines for Mullan, I took great care to assure accurate tractive effort for all locomotives. It is my opinion that these engines have the most realistic physics offered in any TrainSimulations product thus far. ...
    Yep, certainly are...learning from your work.
    Cheers, R. Steele [Gerry] It's my railroad and I'll do what I want! Historically accurate attitude of US Railroad Barons.


  9. #9
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    WOW! Great feedback guys but you've given me a few hours of checking and testing to see what I've obviously done wrong. Thanks for taking the time to run some trains that are obviously a lot heavier and post your findings.

    Sean that's a great link for the NP archive and no I hadn't seen it I did, like all former technicians get round to it... that is RTFM LOL! and couldn't really see anything that different to my settings in OR options. The rest of it on operating procedures looks fascinating but I've got to get the test issues failing consist sorted first. I note too that others reporting no problems are using the latest unstable version, which hasn't given me problems so far (although some reported ones have been fixed whilst I've been doing other stuff) so I'll add reverting to the stable version to my list of tests just in case.

    I had found (the search engine does come up with results sometimes! LOL!) Pete Willards manual, great effort BTW, but although the RE and AE is obviously important the Consist Editor needs some further explanation for me as a newcomer to TSRE. Obviously I, and a lot more of us, are going to have to learn it's workings so that's a whole topic in itself. Just double checked that your link above was what I looked at yesterday Gerry and I only just noticed the download link for the PDF (rather confusingly labelled Clone/Download ???) ....and obviously now having the PDF installed it's a lot easier to navigate! I was trying to read it on github which was obviously not as good.

    I'll try again as I'm obviously doing something daft
    Geoff
    Dorset - near The Swanage Railway.
    UK

  10. #10
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    Well I checked out the Consist in TSRE and it was a modest 600+ tons so obviously that was fine.

    Went back into OR, which luckily always saves the last train you ran AND it's starting point.

    Started the Consist on the 0.4% incline and away we went. So pretty obviously I hadn't engaged Fwd Reverser last time
    .......so got to thinking how a train that was running fine suddenly lost power on the 0.9% grade? The only conclusion I can draw is that I had coasted down a previous slope with 0 throttle and had somehow hit S instead of D on the keyboard whilst looking at the route scenery?????

    So it looks like Derek hit the nail on the head?

    Train stalled NOT by the Sim ....but by a Typo I can't see any other reason and of course operator Error is NOT a Sim Error .....now where did they put that BLUSH Emoji....

    Quote Originally Posted by derekmorton View Post
    >Somewhere? either in TSRE, the physics in the TS stock pack or in OR itself there HAS to be an issue if 3000HP can't haul 10 empty box cars without stalling?

    There is nothing wrong with Open Rails physics.
    There is nothing wrong with Mullan physics.

    It sounds like you had the reverser in neutral?
    SORRY ....but it looks like I wasted your time guys ...but my post has thrown up links to Pete's TSRE guide if anyone else is reading it and Sean's NP link will give me and other NP fans some bedtime tablet browsing?

    One final "note to self".... When I installed TSRE I immediately went to look in the folder it had installed to. Only after I'd found the hard way how to open the Consist Editor .....did I notice a sockin' great SHORTCUT on my desktop . Guess it wasn't one of my better days yesterday! Blame it on my time as a technician.... Remember to check it was actually switched on before you start tearing the machine apart!!! LOL!
    Geoff
    Dorset - near The Swanage Railway.
    UK

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