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Thread: Oh Dear Oh Dear

  1. #21
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    I don't think they have that many mods at the N3V forum Sean, though TBH like here it's pretty much self policing. One or two opinionated souls but nothing like the gauntlet at some other sites!

    I expect TRS2019 will be back on again in a week (or day) or two anyway, given my past form.
    Vern.

  2. #22
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    Yes I have been seduced by the dark side and it is back on again!

    The secret is to be *very* selective and only go for quality assets - e.g. the Jointed Rail stuff for USA, the Russian and Chinese items.
    Vern.

  3. #23
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    I know the forums are very busy. Takes me 20 minutes a day just to weed out what I want to read

    Thanks

    Sean

  4. #24
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    For example here is 1 page alone that came up in the last 3 hours.

    Those who enjoy Run8 may recognise the locations at the bottom.

    As far as the game engine not changing I don't agree and these images are proof of it. There is no way in hell I could see something like that in 2010. It went from MSTS like but better in some ways to way beyond.

    Enjoy the page for the curious.

    https://forums.auran.com/trainz/show...-Pics/page2932

    Thanks

    Sean

  5. #25
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    Whichever way you spin it, Trainz is not a simulator at best it is a toy train game and at worst it is rubbish.

    It might have a new suit of shiny armour. But underneath it is still the same old peasant with his pitchfork.
    Yma O Hyd

  6. #26
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    Hey I'll bite. Since we are talking about what is games, toys, simulators, eye candy, hobbies. Let's dig into all of it shall we?

    As I've said before there are numerous forms of simulation. Not one of them captures everything. I was good enough leaving others alone but let's call a spade at spade. First the positive Run8 is the best train simulator on the planet. It was and still is the best MP experience in train simulation. In comparison between game and simulation from what I've seen or felt Trainz is better then TSW. Neither are Run8 when it comes to train simulation. None of them hold a candle to them when it comes to MP. Sounds like Run8 is pretty damm good and yes it is. But I'll get to the negatives believe me

    My son calls it a game, and the truth of the matter is every simulation out there is for amusement and a toy. It doesn't really do anything but amuse us.

    Now let's dig a bit deeper. Run8 has a pretty good AI, and I won't even put TSW in this combination because to me it's all eye candy. Oddly enough TSW does have a few more steps to start a unit it seems than even Run8. But for the most part TSW is what I call nothing but eye candy. It has some cool features, you can open a window, and I think the mirrors work. But other than that it only goes so far.

    Freight Yard Manager I've always felt was the best railroad simulator. Now you can look at the graphics and the train simulator ability and they have no physics compared to even a TSW. But what they do well is railroad simulation. The operations is incredible.

    I'll bring MSTS and Open Rails in the picture now. A classic no doubt, as content is king. The community found a way to keep this but did the actual game engine itself get better? I don't think so. What got better is now you can actually build routes easier I'm told. Last I checked the user interface needed some work, but it's unfair for me to comment further as I really don't know how far it's come.

    So let's tare into Run8 since apparently I'm told that is now my favorite hobby In Run8 V2 they introduced AI and changed the railroad sim side of it better in a huge difference from V1. From there a few updates came out but the game engine for the most part has stayed the same. We don't know what V3 will bring since it's been pushed back much longer than anticipated, and they boys like to protect their product against all the competition. I still feel this hilarious considering there is no competition for what they bring. No other simulator out there has come along other than TSW and even came close, and then they went the console route. Run8's features have never been attempted other than MP and nobody ever got it right.

    So what is wrong with Run8 I thought I was going to dig in, so here we go. If you enjoy running a class 1 railroad with what the real world has and just dispatch and fly around and watch you might have some fun. You even have 3 regions to choose from with 2 in house, and 1 third party that is closely aligned to Run8. I've heard lots about new regions for years now be it in house and third party. They go on and off the website that gets updated 4 times a year on average if we are lucky. Their official communication thread is a private forum and their email. They gave up on hosting a community years ago because they couldn't take people with different opinions and called them trolls. Not to say they didn't have trolls, but giving up on your own community to have something official wasn't the best PR move in my opinion. You'll see them around here occasionally as they are busy with their lives, and busy producing. But they listen to everyone. Bottom line is they have their vision, and if you happen to hit something they didn't think of that meets their vision their all for it. Remember it's their vision, it's their program. They can run a business anyway they want.

    So let's talk about the AI. Since most regions in real life have 100 plus trains a day you would have to have 30 users back in the old days except 24/7 to keep it as real as it gets. Otherwise you need to scale back. But what about AI that you said was so revolutionary. Yes it made it better, but then most people who enjoy playing with themselves more than playing with other people (hence the word playing not simulating) ran the simulator and made exceptions as to how a railroad runs. They cut back on schedules, the railroad grinds to a halt overnight except for the poor Europeans and Asians, Australians, etc. who didn't have as much people to fill in those gaps. Eventually even if they liked MP they also played with themselves too. Again see how I'm saying playing.

    But the AI Sean you could use it to run trains by you. EYE CANDY. If your running your wonderfully simulated train and you want to pop on the dispatch board (good luck at trying to do that in Florida - not knocking that route because it's a good example) line up some paths and some meets. You may have missed some speed signs, grades, set the brakes, let the dog out for a leak, etc. Well your not simulating now you're playing. You're basically setting up eye candy. There is no freeware, it's all payware to help the boys. Again their business model. We have to support the little guys remember. Then you get to honk at a train that doesn't dim their lights (none of them do btw) and keeps running at a designated speed based on their tonnage and track conditions (no physics which is understandably too much to do).

    In fact when you simulate your own train try climbing Mojave with a fully loaded train and 4 units You can't do it unless you have helpers and isolate. But the Run8 AI can do it Because they're better than you and they know it. Will those AI be able to do anything in one of the major hump yards available? Well not really unless you want to try and get some help and run light power to the other end. Just don't forget to set the switch against it because safety first it will stop. But if your lined out of the yard you may never see it again. No AI commands and you need to be completely aware or dispatch it at all times. Make a mistake the AI isn't going to question you it's just going to keep on going. When you are playing with yourself trying to do so many tasks like any great simulation does right, you make mistakes.

    Back to what I use and yeah I know this is a TSW thread. But if I'm over on the Run8 thread someone will tell the boys, and they'll send their fanboys to come bark at me. TSW doesn't do any of this. In fact TSW2 the evolution as they say is about as much of an evolution (well I better stop or I might get this thread locked if I haven't already).

    So yes I use Trainz. I hated it in 2010 despite it's good features of AI and editing even back then. Now it seems to run better (though it's not perfect). That is why you find good developers or learn to get under the hood yourself and make things happen. I don't worry about other people's routes because I don't use other people's routes I use my own. What I use is other people's assets and that is the beauty about Trainz. Not only do I have this great library of great contributors but I pick and choose what I like or what I don't. If something is close but I need to tweak it a bit, often I can.

    The AI in the base game is pretty good. You can have it switch trains, run to certain points, and program them ahead of time. The saved consists kind of sucks because they don't remember their loads but I'm working on that one. I use staging yards to get the loads and keep them. The save function works as good as Run8 or anything else that I have seen. They will route themselves around each other if set-up properly. Sometimes they run into issues, but they are pretty good about avoiding issues most of the time. If you need even more features just download a rule, or create you own.

    I was told here recently we need to support the little guys. I will support the little guys, if they truly support me. There are great indy developers like Subsistence who takes criticism and keeps with their vision, but puts in features people are looking for. I try to look for the indy developers as much as I can when I need them. But it's ultimately up to the indy developer to sell the product. Relying on the base to do their work for them in marketing, and staying behind their own walls or buddy forums is not supporting the entire community. It might support the popular community, but your cutting off your feet and expecting the rest of your body to grow healthy. If you don't have your feet you may be able to walk, but you won't be able to run. No offense to those without feet, just an analogy.

    Feel free to spin whatever I said here to fit whatever you like or believe in. I like what I like, and others like what they like. That is the beauty of choice and freedom.

    Thanks

    Sean

  7. #27
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    Who rattled your cage Sean.

    Just because you are new to Trainz buddy and it is all exciting and shiny and new.

    Some of us have been around it since day one. The lustre and the wonder wore off years ago.

    With each new version, bringing even more disappointment and lacklustre features.

    You like what you like buddy and that is brilliant.

    Please don't tell me what i have to like or have to agree with.

    Mike.
    Yma O Hyd

  8. #28
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    Oh I forgot we are on an Auran forum. Sorry I wanted to stay on topic as much as I can. I think we were talking about screenshots or something????

    Let me route that back to your original post. BUYER BEWARE! Trust me even you guys from across the ocean. There are enough people that want it bad enough they will buy it and show you how bad something is first. Again I've spent 15 bucks, why because it's about what my son and I will spend this weekend on Tim Horton's drive through (this is a Canadian thing basically a donut and coffee shop with breakfast lunch etc.).

    Posting a screenshot of payware that is missing something because it's not complete is not a big deal. But I bet you someone has already posted a better update to it on the DLS. Their forum has AMAZING contributors. The SAP stuff is amazing by the master sgt. Now he focuses more on the assets then rolling stock, but many others will come up with something better.

    Bottom line if they didn't get something right in their cab, but the route is nice as is other things (I have no idea I'm not from this area of the world) then it doesn't take much to use a session editor and swap it out. Would Run8 or TSW allow you to swap things out, absolutely not. Thankfully one of those companies get it right. The other one looks pretty.

    If your not going to get your hands dirty, your not going to enjoy anything for very long. Deleting and reinstalling something doesn't magically make it better either.

    Thanks

    Sean
    Last edited by SurvivorSean; 06-14-2020 at 09:22 AM. Reason: More

  9. #29

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    A mighty fine read.

    &, I thought I only wrote novels here, along with straying off course most often.

    In the end, all the games/sims have their ups/downs. Something for many tastes.

  10. #30
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    I'm just going over this thread and it's kind of funny actually for a Sunday morning here. So having sound that is right counts for a great simulator as does what it looks like behind the glass? Do all those nice looking buttons work in TSW or Run8. Run8 does a pretty decent job to be fair, but TSW. Heck at least you can open the window to throw up on the rails while you hear those awesome sounds simulated

    TSW the window and sound simulator What does that T stand for anyways? Terrible my son says OK I'll pass.

    Thanks

    Sean

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