Ideas for Run8 - Small Regions and Smart SDK to add to revenue streams

[seagoon]

The only thing I recall saying is Run8 is the best train simulator on the planet.

A post to which I was referring.

I'll produce a video in the next little bit from Way back machine of every single capture from the official Run8 site..........and you will see some trends....

Well, others might see trends but I won't see any because I am not really interested in what was said or proposed or projected or expected more than a decade ago and which hasn't come to pass.

You may as well dig up old MS Train Sim II discussions.

[NorthernWarrior]

Good point and that is something that I forgot about. It wasn't such a big deal before LA because the passengers always run late across the country and sometimes even out of LA for Chicago. But some of the other ones such as SDG etc. are closer to being on time. Having a station platform editor would be very nice because that would allow the trains to leave right away or wait until the actual departure time if they are running early.

Thanks

Sean

Having briefly visited LAUPT yesterday evening to "wye" my freight so I could get across to the Alhambra Line, it struck me also that persistent timetable operation would require a whole level of AI integration which isn't really there. At the base level you would need to be able to issue a "reverse" command to the AI driver in order to turn the train and return it to the station or for that matter if "push pull" fitted with a control trailer or even a DMU (railcar). You might also need a run round command if the locos are being moved to the other end of the train and, to get fiendishly complex, a pilot (shunt) loco coming in to couple up and drag the whole consist away to the carriage sidings (coach yard) to be serviced.

That would all be too much for one operator to do in between dealing with their own train.

[WesternDivision]

Originally Posted by SurvivorSean

1) SMALL REGIONS

" Option 2) only operate certain sections of a region".
" Option 2 requires dedicated people willing to sacrifice running entire sections of a route or even routes attached that are not running on the server.
" I'm thinking having 20 trains is sufficient in a 24 hour period but these are just examples".

1) Speaking for myself I have no regrets buying most of the route addons for the west coast, but having purchased the LA region I have come to realize I have no interest in this area because from an operational point of view for a single player it's just overwhelming. Taking in to consideration the spawn points at Fresno and Quantico NB it is possible for a small server to use just the base game and the BNSF Bakersfield Sub since that Subdivision only runs an average 24 - 27 trains a day with there being a bit of seasonal adjustment in traffic with agriculture in the San Jouquin Valley. By setting operations for current times it might be possible for a small multi player group to include San Jouquin Valley Railroad as well, since Union Pacific has virtually abandoned it's Bakersfield Yard and handed just about all the local operations around Bakersfield etc to San Jouquin Valley Railroad. Customers at Edison are virtualy non existent and the Arvin branch is down to about 5 customers with the Buttonwillow and Sunset branch still active. (Sunset branch not available yet) The BNSF Bakersfield Sub is Run8's crown jewel since it offers a nice variety of operations for single player and multi player without the traffic denisty that the transcon routes have.

Originally Posted by SurvivorSean

2) Software Development Kit

"The software development kit would be an AS IS add on that would use the core Run8 system and allow development of new routes".

2) Since getting back into Trainz, I have found plenty to keep me occupied in building small routes and since John has ruled out a route editor for Run8 then it's basically become a case of move along folks there's nothing to see hear.

When V3 gets released and if it comes with most of the requested features no doubt it will cause a stir in the trainsim community and it might even see a small number of people attempt to start multiplayer servers.
But the initial excitment probaly won't last and this somewhat niche community of simmers has mostly settled on using one main server as it's go to source for multi player operations. Although I do read the Depot's forum, I have yet to get involved in mulit player operations or even partipate in their forums, although I have seen enough on their site to realize that they are a dedicated bunch, who welcome new players and actively help when it is needed.

I think every Run8 single player, even a stubborn recluse like me should put it on their Run8 bucket list to at least have an attempt at multi player and experience that side of the community, but for me it will probaly be another new year resolution never seeing fruition .
Final thoughts are that most of the community is happy with one server that encompasses Run8 and all its addon routes, but it would be nice to see small servers doing well even if they only operated once or twice a week with just half a dozen friends.

[SurvivorSean]

A post to which I was referring.


Well, others might see trends but I won't see any because I am not really interested in what was said or proposed or projected or expected more than a decade ago and which hasn't come to pass.

You may as well dig up old MS Train Sim II discussions.

A wise man said if you don't learn from history your doomed to repeat it?

What you do with your time is your business. The truth is it's probably already too late, so I'll have to ask myself that question is it's worth trying any more.

Thanks

Sean

[NorthernWarrior]

One (well two actually) reasons why I have little to no interest in MP are, 1. The time difference between the UK and a server based in the western USA for example, when I'm playing after evening tea, California are still having their cornflakes! 2. I generally only play up to an hour at a time or the wife would be handing me the "yellow" card...

[SurvivorSean]

The small region (limited route or areas) is possible but I've tried that and it didn't take too well. My hypothesis is majority of people when they have most of everything in SW why would they want to not use it no matter how prototypical it might be to their liking. This is especially true to newer users I would see who perhaps didn't get the experience of MP on Mojave or Needles.

You basically need to find many like minded individuals that are willing to cast a route on the side (something they may have once bought like myself) and try it. That's easy for the person that has the vision, not as easy to convince those trying to share it.

Which is why I go back to small regions. A small region can likely operate with a a few people and do just fine. For me Bakersfield was tempting but it didn't appeal to me.

Thanks

Sean

[SurvivorSean]

Having briefly visited LAUPT yesterday evening to "wye" my freight so I could get across to the Alhambra Line, it struck me also that persistent timetable operation would require a whole level of AI integration which isn't really there. At the base level you would need to be able to issue a "reverse" command to the AI driver in order to turn the train and return it to the station or for that matter if "push pull" fitted with a control trailer or even a DMU (railcar). You might also need a run round command if the locos are being moved to the other end of the train and, to get fiendishly complex, a pilot (shunt) loco coming in to couple up and drag the whole consist away to the carriage sidings (coach yard) to be serviced.

That would all be too much for one operator to do in between dealing with their own train.

You know I don't think about passenger operations that often but I remember the same issues when I tried setting them up on Selkirk at Albany. Add in the commuter services and there is plenty of work for one person.

[SurvivorSean]

One (well two actually) reasons why I have little to no interest in MP are, 1. The time difference between the UK and a server based in the western USA for example, when I'm playing after evening tea, California are still having their cornflakes! 2. I generally only play up to an hour at a time or the wife would be handing me the "yellow" card...

Those reasons would actually favor a smaller region server. You may not get as much interaction with others (though I know or knew many people with different time zones). Smiley for example has a NE server running from New Zeland to this day. Run8 Europe actually had a big following at one time. Not sure if the interest is still there to be honest.

Thanks

Sean

[SurvivorSean]

One last thing as I had to rush out of the house this morning to try and catch a train (railfan). I would have to reconsider Bakersfield as an option and perhaps I'll talk with Scott and others about it.

One thing I will mention is about the diehards vs the casuals. It's a term used in the TV ratings for wrestling probably other shows (I don't watch much on TV other than Star Trek and Wrestling ).

The diehards it's more difficult to grow their audience. They are also very loyal at the same time can be demanding for that is why they support it. Casuals on the other hand is where the growth comes in. It's amazing how many out there have never heard of Run8, and that is a shame.

But it's why I will come across as critical (tough love if you will) yet still come up with some ideas from time to time. Like you Trainz became a new adventure for me. Though right now all train sims sit idle as I'm playing around in the real world with drones.

Thanks

Sean

[metalangel]

To add in to the two main points Sean has raised:

1. Route size: I agree to an extent about this, it just got to be too much, especially with needing to route trains appropriately around San Bernadino (where before they would reach the exit portals on Cajon and not be an issue). Needles and to a lesser extent Seligman more or less run themselves. Apart from putting the odd train into a loop to allow a higher priority to pass, you don't need to do much with it.

You'd end up with people doing their chosen activities, but those activities falling apart because something elsewhere wasn't being done. This was usually West Colton not being humped and trimmed, followed closely by Barstow. Likewise, a queue of trains on the Alhambra sub waiting for some kind soul to send them down the trench or elsewhere.

I guess it's a case of damned if you do - having a big area with lots to do means people like being able to pick their chosen vocation and enjoy it with others around, but it also needs more manpower to keep the operation running.

2. SDK: I can't say as much for this, beyond that having the tools out there so determined individuals (or groups) can make their favourite route with pinpoint accuracy is ALWAYS a plus. I have never been a fan of fictional routes, I find the real deal more compelling simply because it had to be built to suit a specific need and geography, not the other way around, and this shows in the challenges of operating and driving it. The two included routes in Diesel Railcar vs the three or four prototypical user-made routes are a decent example of this.

One (well two actually) reasons why I have little to no interest in MP are, 1. The time difference between the UK and a server based in the western USA for example, when I'm playing after evening tea, California are still having their cornflakes! 2. I generally only play up to an hour at a time or the wife would be handing me the "yellow" card...

When I was playing Run8 regularly, I could use up an entire day off on it. This was before parenthood - the mrs. would be at work and I'd have 6-8 hours to myself. I've said elsewhere, there is so much to do and keeping it running smoothly is so compelling that you just keep going and gping...