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Thread: Ideas for Run8 - Small Regions and Smart SDK to add to revenue streams

  1. #11

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    lol.. &, the attack begins.. I warned ya SM.... We'll know when we hear the jingle of keys growing ever louder as they walks the Green Mile. Sheriff's back in town....

  2. #12
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    Accurate physics and realistic operations are top on my priority list for a train sim. That alone ordinarily would've made me pick up Run 8 in a heartbeat, and yet here we are so many years later and I still haven't brought myself to buy it.

    For me personally, the lack of public route creation tools is a deal killer. That's probably no surprise since I spend so much of my time doing route building, and I am probably in the minority there among all train sim users. Western North American railroading is my prime area of interest, and SoCal is neat, but has been done so many times in all the other train sims. I need some more variety of territory, biome, time period, etc. (that desire for variety is what drives all of the route projects I am personally working on). I had high hopes for a SDK several years ago, but it never came.

    Lack of a more automatic AI dispatcher. I am sure I don't understand this perfectly since I don't own the game, but my understanding is that with single player with AI trains, the player still has to be extremely involved in the dispatching to prevent deadlocks occurring. Sounds like it could get tedious / tiring very quick on a busy single track route. I imagine that in the Run 8 universe, there is hardly any semblance of an "activity" like we have in OR, where there is a pre-defined route and specific order of events to occur. I understand the advantages of not having to limit oneself to that, but I would think being able to choose between BOTH an activity and a more open-world session would be advantageous.
    ~Sean Kelly~

    MRL Mullan Pass for ORTS
    https://www.trainsimulations.net/mullanpass

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by PerryPlatypus View Post

    Lack of a more automatic AI dispatcher. I am sure I don't understand this perfectly since I don't own the game, but my understanding is that with single player with AI trains, the player still has to be extremely involved in the dispatching to prevent deadlocks occurring. Sounds like it could get tedious / tiring very quick on a busy single track route. I imagine that in the Run 8 universe, there is hardly any semblance of an "activity" like we have in OR, where there is a pre-defined route and specific order of events to occur. I understand the advantages of not having to limit oneself to that, but I would think being able to choose between BOTH an activity and a more open-world session would be advantageous.
    This is indeed one element I would like to see added. Well two things actually, the AI despatcher as it does indeed get busy if you have more than a handful of trains running across a 400 mile territory. Not very safe either if you're driving at 50 MPH calling up the DS screen, having to figure out where the train actually is and set the route. I haven't yet dabbled with the car forwarding system but, again, Run 8 does not have any real structured activity basis (apart from car tagging). The AI trains follow whatever route you decide to set for them, I don't even think you can give them proper or meaningful headcodes (reporting numbers) e.g. such as DOBKU or BKDOU and actually give the driver a destination. As I roll through Los Angeles I see all the passenger stations and it would be really cool to set up an operating timetable for the train service (I accept North American freights don't run to a fixed schedule but passenger trains do).

    That latter would require some sort of timetable or scenario editor for the end user.
    Vern.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMRY View Post
    lol.. &, the attack begins.. I warned ya SM.... We'll know when we hear the jingle of keys growing ever louder as they walks the Green Mile. Sheriff's back in town....
    Nobody attacks me, how many fingers am I holding? I finally got to see 1984 the other day after knowing what it meant for years. Big brother is watching

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagoon View Post
    Yet in another recent thread you say that that it's the best thing since sliced bread, Sean.
    The only thing I recall saying is Run8 is the best train simulator on the planet. But that is old news, nothing beats it's physics. The MP is he best, as with many other features I could name off.

    Being the best is one thing. Reaching your potential and dying off is a whole different animal. If I didn't care about Run8 and try to offer suggestions that might get it off of life support I wouldn't be here. To be honest I wouldn't of swallowed my pride of defending myself to offer a well thought out plan.

    What may be real in the physics engine and how the train handles is totally different than the operation you put it through. That operation is up to two variables. The route(s) involved and the amount of manpower.

    I'll produce a video in the next little bit from Way back machine of every single capture from the official Run8 site. My son and I did it this morning and you will see some trends.

    Some people enjoy single player and what there is and that is perfectly cool. But there is a co-relation between the trend of how servers began to disappear vs the expansion of the routes. Honestly I don't know if I'll waste my time on showing this because this is a very limited audience.

    Thanks

    Sean
    Last edited by SurvivorSean; 12-20-2020 at 06:03 PM. Reason: Removed duplicate

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by PerryPlatypus View Post
    Accurate physics and realistic operations are top on my priority list for a train sim. That alone ordinarily would've made me pick up Run 8 in a heartbeat, and yet here we are so many years later and I still haven't brought myself to buy it.
    Hi Sean I didn't want to repeat your entire quote because you make some huge key points. I showed my son this morning in the way back
    machine how the SDK was indeed on their official website for some time I believe expected to release in 2013. I also recall a quote from
    John about opening up the editors. However, John came on here saying that he said no such thing and was always against them or something to that effect.

    The funny thing was I got into Run8 as a beta team member and was convinced that this was worth it. At first you only had Mojave Sub and yes it had been done before. But no other place could you set-up a MP operation with the awesome physics. This was before V2 when there was no AI. You basically needed about 8 to 10 people to run trains in a session of a few hours and with 1 dispatcher you could accomplish that and have realistic traffic levels.

    With the addition of the hump (which I loved BTW and Needles then Cajon) it was apparent that AI was needed. The AI in Run8 is smart enough to follow signals, switches, and speed. Dispatching must be done by human(s). I had designed an AI dispatcher but never coded it due to lack of support to implement it. However AI has no ability to hump on it's own or change switches, uncouple, couple, etc. Still with AI and the same crowd you could accomplish quite a bit on a decent server.

    Then San Bernardino came in and the workload nearly doubled. I believe some of the more popular servers could run mega sessions and get away with it. But eventually it expanded even further to two additional routes, and 3 or 4 spurs along the way. This where As Real As It Gets doesn't stand the litmus test. Physics yes, operating the prototype at levels absolutely not. You need a session of minimum 40 people to do it by my estimation. This is about the triple the switching requirements not counting dispatchers. When you add 24/7 your faced with another challenge because you would have to maintain that volume on average for over 24 hours.

    Activities can be done in the form of save sessions but it's still open ended and requires a manual dispatcher. But your right it does get tedious especially in single player if your trying to have realistic traffic levels on any busy territory.

    What I did towards the end of my time with Run8 about a year ago is run with Scott and perhaps we had another person or two (Scott would remember better than me). We took a limited area. Still the majority of what we did was run AI trains that really had no meaning to us. It became more like glorified eye candy than trains with purpose. This is why for me personally nothing will beat the dawn of V2 and those 3 routes and a group of a dozen people running it at full capacity. Those will always be the times I can remember and say beyond a shadow of a doubt, that was as real as it gets. Since then try getting that many people to run a limited number of routes, there are simply no takers for that when people want to support Run8.

    Thanks

    Sean

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by SurvivorSean View Post
    Nobody attacks me, how many fingers am I holding? I finally got to see 1984 the other day after knowing what it meant for years. Big brother is watching

    darn it Sean, ya know my eyesight's not so good these days. I be lucky to see own hand in front of the face. Please add that gesture to next stream. Ya know I love ya, &, the entire community, what's left of it... What, close call, thought I heard keys jingling...lol..

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by seagoon View Post
    Yet in another recent thread you say that that it's the best thing since sliced bread, Sean.
    lol.. sliced bread?,, nobody downs sliced bread these days, They visit the bagel shop, for over sized hard donuts & wifi.
    I still down sliced bread, though, only French Toast, &, I don't have wifi...

  9. #19
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    Is this going to turn into a food thread? We should have a food fight and get our hostilities out on one another out of our system. There are trains to run dammit! Somewhere?

    Thanks

    Sean

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernWarrior View Post

    That latter would require some sort of timetable or scenario editor for the end user.
    Good point and that is something that I forgot about. It wasn't such a big deal before LA because the passengers always run late across the country and sometimes even out of LA for Chicago. But some of the other ones such as SDG etc. are closer to being on time. Having a station platform editor would be very nice because that would allow the trains to leave right away or wait until the actual departure time if they are running early.

    Thanks

    Sean

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