Discussion: future of TS202x

[mstsbe]

Some points have already been touched in various subjects either in this forum or in the TSW sub-forum, but there has never been a dedicated topic to group them all, so I thought it was a good idea to start one.

At this point we all know DTG is invested in 2 train simulators: TS20xx, starting off as Rail Simulator back in 2007. Meanwhile loads of additional content available, but very poorly optimized for modern hardware. Still new content releases, and each year a relabeled version of the core programme is re-released.

The other sim is TSW and its partial successor TSW2, based on the Unreal Engine 4 and also available for consoles. Unlike TS20xx, this sim is a closed-loop system with no editors and only pre-made content from DTG can be added.
While this is clearly an advantage for people that just want a click-and-go experience instead of searching through endless dependencies for a scenario/route to run. More advanced users will be disappointed and quickly bored once they have gone through all scenario's.

While none of the 2 simulators can currently satisfy everyone (or even any current railroad simulator for that matter), I think it is time DTG needs to make some fundamental decisions, especially concerning TS20xx.

If I recall correctly, the core TS20xx sim functionality has not been updated anymore with new or enhanced features since 2016. This needs to change. In order for that to happen, it would be beneficial if DTG step down from a developer role in this sim, and hand over development to a third-party studio. Similar to what Microsoft did with the new MSFS.
DTG would only remain on board as a publisher, and for all legal stuff as they own the trademarks etc.

This could lead to 2 options:
* Either this studio decides to start from scratch making a new sim compatible with existing content, similar to what Trainz tried to achieve with T:ANE.
* Or they take the existing base and build further from there. This is not my preferred option, since this is still a DirectX 9-based engine and will need replacement sometime anyway (once Microsoft will deprecate DirectX 9 on future Windows 10 versions).

Another third option, which of course DTG will be reluctant to see is the way how OpenRails came to be: reverse engineering the inner workings/formats of MSTS, and then build a sim around it.
Next to the legal issues, it would be difficult to make it work technically due to TS20xx heavy Steam integration and the dependent DLC's from DTG which are all in their proprietary encrypted format (and only work with the Steam account they are bound to).

Let's hope that some of the minds at DTG finally come to a same conclusion sometime themselves, but preferably in the next year or so. Otherwise, some new kids on the block (that SimRail thingy seems to catch quite some attention) might have eaten away a piece of the pie DTG could have monetized on..

[NorthernWarrior]

I can only go on my own experience...

I haven't driven TS20xx, done any route building or bought any content for months. I had a couple of items highlighted for potential purchase in the Steam sale but couldn't bring myself to hit the buy button.

Conversely I've invested heavily in TSW2 over the last month or two, only refunded the one route (LIRR) which didn't come up to my expectations.

As a one time route builder in all three of the big sims, I get the impression from looking at sites like ATS (Alan Thomson) that the bar even for freeware has been raised so high, it ain't worth the bother. No one wants to see routes made using 14year old Kuju or RSDL assets any more. So Trainz satisfies what little interest I have in burning my retinas out building routes even though the driving experience is mostly crap. Don't have to jump through hoops trying to source assets as everything you need is on their DLS, not scattered around the www or locked up by the developer so you can't place and use in your own route. Maybe a bit of time in TSRE for MSTS/OR but I haven't tried to create anything for quite a few months.

TSW(2) has the advantage that most routes come with a full timetable for the day's operation and once DTG sort out the save game algorithm you effectively have a World Of Subways type operation but applied to the wider world routes that DTG and their chosen associates are producing.

I don't speak for everyone but personally I'm quite happy to let others build the content and I'll buy it to run in TSW2. That said, I can't for one moment see DTG relinquishing their rights to classic TS20xx to allow some sort of Open Rails style operation to take over.

[haverfordwest]

Cannot see DTG giving up TS20xx, it's a cash cow for TSW2.

I have TS2021 installed as there is more UK content to choose from, compared to TSW2.

Plus steam locomotives, in regards which i have my eye on the GWR 28xx when i can afford it.

Mike.

[seagoon]

....... I think it is time DTG needs to make some fundamental decisions, especially concerning TS20xx.........
..........it would be beneficial if DTG step down from a developer role in this sim, and hand over development to a third-party studio.......
..........DTG would only remain on board as a publisher, and for all legal stuff as they own the trademarks etc.
Let's hope that some of the minds at DTG finally come to a same conclusion sometime themselves, but preferably in the next year or so........

No doubt the owner(s) of the company, who are monitoring this forum 24/7, will call an urgent meeting in order to consider your recommendations and subsequently issue you with an invitation to join their management group.

[seagoon]

........personally I'm quite happy to let others build the content and I'll buy it to run in TSW2...

That's exactly how I feel about Run 8.

[caren22]

Some points have already been touched in various subjects either in this forum or in the TSW sub-forum, but there has never been a dedicated topic to group them all, so I thought it was a good idea to start one.

At this point we all know DTG is invested in 2 train simulators: TS20xx, starting off as Rail Simulator back in 2007. Meanwhile loads of additional content available, but very poorly optimized for modern hardware. Still new content releases, and each year a relabeled version of the core programme is re-released.

The other sim is TSW and its partial successor TSW2, based on the Unreal Engine 4 and also available for consoles. Unlike TS20xx, this sim is a closed-loop system with no editors and only pre-made content from DTG can be added.
While this is clearly an advantage for people that just want a click-and-go experience instead of searching through endless dependencies for a scenario/route to run. More advanced users will be disappointed and quickly bored once they have gone through all scenario's.

While none of the 2 simulators can currently satisfy everyone (or even any current railroad simulator for that matter), I think it is time DTG needs to make some fundamental decisions, especially concerning TS20xx.

If I recall correctly, the core TS20xx sim functionality has not been updated anymore with new or enhanced features since 2016. This needs to change. In order for that to happen, it would be beneficial if DTG step down from a developer role in this sim, and hand over development to a third-party studio. Similar to what Microsoft did with the new MSFS.
DTG would only remain on board as a publisher, and for all legal stuff as they own the trademarks etc.

This could lead to 2 options:
* Either this studio decides to start from scratch making a new sim compatible with existing content, similar to what Trainz tried to achieve with T:ANE.
* Or they take the existing base and build further from there. This is not my preferred option, since this is still a DirectX 9-based engine and will need replacement sometime anyway (once Microsoft will deprecate DirectX 9 on future Windows 10 versions).

Another third option, which of course DTG will be reluctant to see is the way how OpenRails came to be: reverse engineering the inner workings/formats of MSTS, and then build a sim around it.
Next to the legal issues, it would be difficult to make it work technically due to TS20xx heavy Steam integration and the dependent DLC's from DTG which are all in their proprietary encrypted format (and only work with the Steam account they are bound to).

Let's hope that some of the minds at DTG finally come to a same conclusion sometime themselves, but preferably in the next year or so. Otherwise, some new kids on the block (that SimRail thingy seems to catch quite some attention) might have eaten away a piece of the pie DTG could have monetized on..

My vote is for the third option right from the start but I believe that having more than 100+ different train dlc for the old game they will stick for the first option
it’s way safer in terms of money

[haverfordwest]

No doubt the owner(s) of the company, who are monitoring this forum 24/7, will call an urgent meeting in order to consider your recommendations and subsequently issue you with an invitation to join their management group.

Now now Bruce, sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

Mike.

[seagoon]

Now now Bruce, sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

Mike.

The saying also says that it is wasted on fools and children, Mike.

But seriously.....we can suggest and urge until we are blue in the face but the chances of DTG management taking the slightest bit of notice of what we suggest are slim at best.

[haverfordwest]

No wonder i didn't understand it then, Bruce.

Complete waste of time buddy, the T in DTG stands for tunnelvision.

Mike.

[daniellouwrens]

Hi

the only thing that I want is an Autopilot feature where I can sit back and watch.

This is my main attraction to OR and I will not buy any more DTG content until
one is available.

I enjoy making a scenario and watching it run, it is also a convenient beta test method.

Cheers

Daniel