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Thread: Zero Degree Node Removal for OR?

  1. #1
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    Default Zero Degree Node Removal for OR?

    Has anyone using TSRE come up with a method for removing the outdated Zero nodes used in msts?
    Alternatively, could it be coded into OR to ignore these nodes for AI traffic and not display them in the track monitor?
    Cheers, Gerry
    It's my railroad and I'll do what I want! Historically accurate attitude of US Railroad Barons.
    Forever, ridin' drag in railroad knowledge.


  2. #2
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    You would have to remove them the same way you would any other track piece: remove all interactives as far as the next switch node or end-of-track in either direction, and then remove the 0° node, replacing it with ordinary track pieces to span the gap. Many were 3.5m in length, I think, but that could vary by design used

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    Quote Originally Posted by ebnertra000 View Post
    You would have to remove them the same way you would any other track piece: remove all interactives as far as the next switch node or end-of-track in either direction, and then remove the 0° node, replacing it with ordinary track pieces to span the gap. Many were 3.5m in length, I think, but that could vary by design used
    Thanks Travis, but not being a route builder your explanation is incomprehensible to me...it is just a pointer to a long learning curve that I'm not sure I want to start at this time. I was looking for a 1.) do this or push this button 2.) then do this or choose this menu item...and honestly what I'm asking is too much. Maybe it could be coded into OR to at least have the AI traffic ignore these zero node points?

    I'll keep your explanation for reference and try to figure it out, unless someone else happens along with the magic spell I'm asking for.
    Cheers, Gerry
    It's my railroad and I'll do what I want! Historically accurate attitude of US Railroad Barons.
    Forever, ridin' drag in railroad knowledge.


  4. #4

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    Its not a simple removal. You have to remove signals and other interactives on the track nodes immediately surrounding the zero node. On a route where the ZN was used to deal with a long stretch of track and Cutback Syndrome, that could be 10-20 miles of track needing to be modified.

    Sent from my SM-T290 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by eolesen View Post
    Its not a simple removal. You have to remove signals and other interactives on the track nodes immediately surrounding the zero node. On a route where the ZN was used to deal with a long stretch of track and Cutback Syndrome, that could be 10-20 miles of track needing to be modified.

    Sent from my SM-T290 using Tapatalk
    Wouldn't the zero node have some sort of mathematical, or code identifier that OR could use to tell AI traffic to ignore when loading the AI path, there can be AI traffic jams because of the nodes. Does the fact that interactives are involved complicate the problem to the point that coding OR could not adequately address it?
    Cheers, Gerry
    It's my railroad and I'll do what I want! Historically accurate attitude of US Railroad Barons.
    Forever, ridin' drag in railroad knowledge.


  6. #6
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    A zero node is in effect a very very short passing siding which is why the AI can get tangled up in OR. Replacement with plain track is the only solution for the problem.
    Beer is not a matter of life or death, it is much more serious than that.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Steele View Post
    Wouldn't the zero node have some sort of mathematical, or code identifier that OR could use to tell AI traffic to ignore when loading the AI path, there can be AI traffic jams because of the nodes. Does the fact that interactives are involved complicate the problem to the point that coding OR could not adequately address it?
    It's a switch. That's all ORTS sees.

    You might be able to hard code the section IDX for zero nodes into ORTS to ignore, but that just adds overhead processing that wouldn't be used very often.


    Unless you've defined a passing path I don't know how it would be picked up as one for AI. The paths are less than 20m long for Scalerail, and even shorter with XTracks. I'd think the chances of having a path conflict would be very low.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by eolesen View Post
    ....
    Unless you've defined a passing path I don't know how it would be picked up as one for AI. The paths are less than 20m long for Scalerail, and even shorter with XTracks. I'd think the chances of having a path conflict would be very low.
    In the threads, here and at ET, there does seem to be some consensus forming that the zero nodes are interfering with AI traffic paths in OR. Will have to read more about this. Thank you for the reply.
    Cheers, Gerry
    It's my railroad and I'll do what I want! Historically accurate attitude of US Railroad Barons.
    Forever, ridin' drag in railroad knowledge.


  9. #9
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    Hi All,
    I'll say, right at the start that I am not a route builder and, although I know why zero nodes were introduced, I don't know their impact on interactives. I don't know if I've ever used a route which has them - I don't think most UK routes have the extreme lengths of plain track which makes them a necessity! I'm sure people much cleverer than I am have been, or are, looking into this problem, but I wonder if I could ask a few questions, please?

    When driving a train, I understand that the Track Monitor displays the 'zero node'; how does it appear, visually, on the track, to the player? Does it look like a catch-point (sorry, I don't know the North American terminology!)? Or is it invisible? If it's invisible, how is it different to a catch-point?

    Obviously, I could find out the answers for myself, if I knew where to look!! Do any of the default routes contain zero nodes? Please let me know of a route and the approximate Lat/Lon of a zero node.

    Thanks
    Cheers,
    Ged

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by slipperman View Post
    Hi All...When driving a train, I understand that the Track Monitor displays the 'zero node'; how does it appear, visually, on the track, to the player? Does it look like a catch-point (sorry, I don't know the North American terminology!)? Or is it invisible? If it's invisible, how is it different to a catch-point?

    Obviously, I could find out the answers for myself, if I knew where to look!! Do any of the default routes contain zero nodes? Please let me know of a route and the approximate Lat/Lon of a zero node.

    Thanks
    Cheers,
    Ged
    Ged, it appears on the track monitor as a switch. When I first started using OR I would slow down thinking I had to take a siding -- no siding would appear.

    bandicam 2021-03-22 13-13-43-498.jpg
    Cheers, Gerry
    It's my railroad and I'll do what I want! Historically accurate attitude of US Railroad Barons.
    Forever, ridin' drag in railroad knowledge.


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