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Thread: Zero Degree Node Removal for OR?

  1. #11
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    Ahhh so THAT'S why there's 2 or 3 occasions on the BNSF Scenic route where a switch appears on the monitor and also (although not always) on the separate switch window but then no siding appears. It also triggers Carlo's DemoAutoSounds switch sound.
    Dell Desktop. Intel i5 3.3 CPU. 8GB RAM. Nvidia GTX 1050Ti 4GB graphics. Windows Pro 64bit. RailDriver. Partridge in a pear tree...

  2. #12
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    https://www.msts.steam4me.net/tutori...zero_node.html

    Basically you are building a small 1m long passing loop. The two 'invisible switches' go face to face and a small 1m track piece fills the siding gap and completes the passing loop (so trains can pass through either route, normal or reversed).

    Some route builders would just insert one switch but it would function more like a hidden derail, only the normalized position would allow a train to pass through, reversed position would derail/bumper post the train.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by geepster775 View Post
    https://www.msts.steam4me.net/tutori...zero_node.html

    Basically you are building a small 1m long passing loop. The two 'invisible switches' go face to face and a small 1m track piece fills the siding gap and completes the passing loop (so trains can pass through either route, normal or reversed).

    Some route builders would just insert one switch but it would function more like a hidden derail, only the normalized position would allow a train to pass through, reversed position would derail/bumper post the train.
    I just read Yuri's zero node tutorial and my understanding is that this type of node hack-modification would leave a unique signature somewhere in the files...track database? If so, it should then be possible to tell OR to ignore that specific signature. OF course, considering my utter ignorance of track/route construction and OR code...I may be talking through my hat.
    Cheers, Gerry
    It's my railroad and I'll do what I want! Historically accurate attitude of US Railroad Barons.
    Forever, ridin' drag in railroad knowledge.


  4. #14

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    There's really nothing unique.

    Node A ends, Nodes B and C begin and end, Node D begins. All four nodes will have the same components, the only thing unique would be the trackshape/index of the zero nodes, and hardcoding based on that alone isn't foolproof because someone may have used the A1tPnt1mStrt.s with a curve to create a switch without animated points.
    Last edited by eolesen; 03-22-2021 at 06:08 PM.

  5. #15

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    My experience has been that OR is aware of the position of each train on a node-by-node basis. The presence of zero-degree loops foreshortens the distance between useable nodes and can confuse the dispatcher as to if it is appropriate to clear a track for movement. This is true even if all of the paths follow the same exact route through the zero-degree loops, and even if "location-linked passing path processing" is activated. OR sees turnouts, therefore it sees the possibility of diverging tracks, therefore it diligently tries to route the traffic accordingly. The dispatcher has an important job to do -- Don't blame the dispatcher!

  6. #16
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    i
    Quote Originally Posted by dcarleton View Post
    My experience has been that OR is aware of the position of each train on a node-by-node basis. The presence of zero-degree loops foreshortens the distance between useable nodes and can confuse the dispatcher as to if it is appropriate to clear a track for movement. This is true even if all of the paths follow the same exact route through the zero-degree loops, and even if "location-linked passing path processing" is activated. OR sees turnouts, therefore it sees the possibility of diverging tracks, therefore it diligently tries to route the traffic accordingly. The dispatcher has an important job to do -- Don't blame the dispatcher!
    Your experience in on point, however, I don't understand the reference to "blaming the dispatcher"?? ( perhaps I missed the humor? ) IMO ( and others opinion, so I've read ) there is a problem being introduced into OR AI traffic movement caused by the zero point node hacks.

    There has been some brilliant coding in OR to overcome other deficiencies caused by legacy considerations, why not try to fix this? I am suggesting that someone with working knowledge of the OR code and the zero point node data point in the msts files may be able to code a solution.

    Of course, in the end, we may have to live with this problem caused by legacy files and hacks.
    Cheers, Gerry
    It's my railroad and I'll do what I want! Historically accurate attitude of US Railroad Barons.
    Forever, ridin' drag in railroad knowledge.


  7. #17
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    Hi Fellas,
    Thanks for your valiant attempts to explain these zero nodes to me!

    @Gerry : Thanks for the reference to Yuri's tutorial
    I now understand how they are created. Is the problem of removing them because nodes are numbered sequentially and any missing ones will cause problems with signalling, etc.?
    As I understand MSTS, it is not permitted to join two points toe to toe but to add a short straight track piece between them. As these nodes seem to be created toe to toe, isn't that a way to uniquely identify them ?

    Cheers,
    Ged

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Steele View Post
    I don't understand the reference to "blaming the dispatcher"??
    In the real-life world, train and engine crews are notorious for blaming the dispatcher!

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by slipperman View Post
    As these nodes seem to be created toe to toe, isn't that a way to uniquely identify them?
    They're not always created that way. Some routes have the two nodes separated by short straight track pieces, an actual theoretically functioning but useless passing siding (crossing loop) perhaps three to five meters long.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcarleton View Post
    In the real-life world, train and engine crews are notorious for blaming the dispatcher!
    Ahhh....enlightenment...thanks for that ... my ignorance can be explained by this: "Forever, ridin' drag in railroad knowledge" always playing catchup...but learning everyday.
    Cheers, Gerry
    It's my railroad and I'll do what I want! Historically accurate attitude of US Railroad Barons.
    Forever, ridin' drag in railroad knowledge.


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