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Thread: Canadian Pacific Kansas City

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by CSRX View Post
    CPKC is just another way of killing off jobs, trains, etc. How people, especially the railfan community, don't see this, is beyond me.

    I guess they care more about their silly crap photography than they do people trying to make a living, supporting their families.
    Yup armchair railroaders gotta a love them. This is the Corp America growing and Canadians slowly taking over your rail system...lol
    Work Safe play hard

  2. #12
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    CP is waaaay overpaying for the property, almost 5x what CN paid for IC. And that was before paying 2 x $700 million termination fees to CN.

    So the bigger question is which properties already in CP would be put on the block to help pay for it. CP has a terrible track record of getting value out of their mergers without resorting to line sales.

    CP subsidiary SOO + MILW = Went nowhere = SOO - 50% of 'old SOO' DSSA lines to WC

    CP + D&H = Went nowhere = CP - 60% of D&H to PAS

    CP + DM&E = Went nowhere = CP - RCPE

    CP - MMA = Went nowhere = CP + MMA re-acquired

    Hell of a failed track record in advance of 5X the cost of geographically similar mergers.

  3. #13
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    I mean, As Geepster put it with their track record here in the New England region, it's a given. Double the size of trains, and reducing the amount of crews. That's been a huge PSR thing, especially with Harrison in control at the time. The new guy isn't too far off from Harrison either, let's be honest. When you have two guys that are basically the only crew you have, you end up cancelling one train, and doubling the size of the other, and telling the crew, do not make any stops, or you will pull apart.

    Major changes have already happened on the old D&H. D-47 is no longer. Instead D-13 Monday through Friday, unless cancelled due to not having a crew. This essentially means, D-47 no longer runs from Whitehall to Saratoga Springs, bringing all traffic from Ticonderoga and VRS, plus the local work, resulting in Train 252 making the stop to lift track 2, and drop on track 1 for whatever is needed to be set off for D-13 or VRS.
    Train 253 will sometimes make a lift going north at Whitehall as well, but rarely.
    Train 931 will sometimes make a stop to drop off two-three cars in Whitehall, as a result as well of no D-47.

    Sometimes trains 650/651 will be combined with trains 252/253 as well, which in return means no stops.

    Sadly this is going to be the same way for those KCS trains. Double the length, reduce the crews. Not just shop guys, office guys, etc. No one is safe when it comes to these mergers and buyouts. Never have been.

    CN clearly saw what CP was up to, and decided to jump in to make a statement, and hopefully kill off the deal completely, though, failed.
    With CP reaching from Mexico, into Canada, it's easy enough to set their own rates, and slowly put a damper over the smaller guys that do reach between Canada/US and even US/Mexico. Maybe not so much against the class ones, but the shortlines and regionals will take a hit, especially if they don't have the online customers to back it.

    Where I work, we have seen the outcome of CP buying out smaller roads, where we ended up losing bridge traffic, and they simply went around us.
    We had traffic from CMQ going through us, to reach NS/KCS, however with CP buying CMQ, the traffic ended up going around us directly, but with Covid-19, the plant closed up and traffic dried up anyways.
    https://i.imgur.com/LPZNEX4.png

  4. #14

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    This isn't a merger with a Class 2 or 3 railroad like the MMA, and KCS adopted PSR three or four years ago.

    I don't think you can make any assumptions about the usual tropes hurled at PSR like train lengths doubling, crews being cut cack, etc. when both railroads are already a couple years in to PSR.

    Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

  5. #15
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    Mergers and acquisitions in general take out small business from ever competing period. The bigger corps have their lobbyists in a country near you, get the concessions they need to make even more money. The corporations generally only care about their shareholders return on investment. A private small business of course cares about profit but at the same time has pride in what they do and the employees who work under them.

    I'm sure this will pass just fine because it will make both railroads more efficient and in essence allow others to offer better services. The difference between previous mergers and this one is the fact that most of middle class railroads don't exist and it's either the very small, or small networks who get to have the table scraps on the stuff the bigs don't get a big enough return on investment from. But in that whole development you will see plenty of unprofitable through lines eliminated that don't generate enough freight.

    They will take a service disruption like a derailment as a part of doing business. The customers just have to deal with it like the horrible monoplies in the courier industry and many of the ports and shipping lines.

    All recent fun and games with people lives in the past 2 years is an attack on small business and middle class period. I won't push this any further than that here. You can fill in the blanks and connect the dots, it's really not that hard to see the connections. Follow the money.

    Thanks

    Sean

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by eolesen View Post
    This isn't a merger with a Class 2 or 3 railroad like the MMA, and KCS adopted PSR three or four years ago.

    I don't think you can make any assumptions about the usual tropes hurled at PSR like train lengths doubling, crews being cut cack, etc. when both railroads are already a couple years in to PSR.

    Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk
    You completely missed the rest of the point.. Just because KCS has already adopted PSR, doesn't mean it's going to not get worse with these PSR rules, the cutbacks, etc.
    And honestly, CP isn't that on point with online customers either. Literally told a online customer, they will get their "special" switch on Tuesday, when the road runs to that point again, rather than doing so, causing the customer to not be switched for almost 5 days. Don't think KCS is like that!
    https://i.imgur.com/LPZNEX4.png

  7. #17

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    Oh, I didn't miss your points.

    I just think you're overestimating the impact.

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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by eolesen View Post
    Oh, I didn't miss your points.

    I just think you're overestimating the impact.

    Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk
    Okay, well, I am looking at it from the inside view, not the outside view as most do. That's the difference between being a railroad employee and just an average railfan.
    https://i.imgur.com/LPZNEX4.png

  9. #19

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    Yep, I get the employee view will be different because it's very personal. It's normal to feel a new owner isn't going to be as good as the company you chose to go to work for.

    I'm looking at it as someone who has been part of five mergers subject to the Railway Labor Act, and followed a dozen or so others for the past 30 years. It almost always sounds worse than it works out to be. I lost my job in one, and did ok in the other four.

  10. #20
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    Some survive, many get hurt. The longer you are in a particular market the higher your value where a merger or someone else will take over your contract, offer a position, etc.

    Middle class is not as easy to attribute to the working class because often middle class stretches from entry level to highly experienced or even jr. management positions. The middle class is shrinking beause those at the bottom rely on government and those at the top rely on leverage.

    A corporation like CP or anyone not in bankruptcy can leverage unprecidented low interest rates in difficult economic times on main street and manage to turn a profit either in a good investment or even a bad one through stock bybacks and other instruments in the equity market where at this point most of the commercial money can be found tied in the markets. The same attraction to stocks for a company that is talking about mergers, restructuring, that are popular and have a good track record of market performance (not necessarily operational efficiency) is going to do very well.

    It's not like a mom and pop, or even average joe trying to balance his books on a budget. Sure they have budgets but that is all about maximum ROI. The budgets for the mom and po and average joe is about survival.

    Put it this way I wouldn't want to be somoene on the extra board with either railraod at this time. The market is well overdue for a major correction or crash. Main St is failing including the businesses that got destrotyed the last 2 years under these conditions. They were already in trouble before Covid. I hope I'm wrong, and being wrong and pepared beats thinking we are in a business as usual economy without taking necessary precautions in my opinion.

    Thanks

    Sean

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