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Thread: Why is there no modern simulator that offers "best of both worlds"?

  1. #1

    Default Why is there no modern simulator that offers "best of both worlds"?

    I have been a loyal train simmer since 2001 when I got my first copy of MSTS, and in recent years I switched over to OR completely.
    As nice as OR is, it is sadly showing it's age and the graphical limitations that comes with it. So I began to look up the other simulators on the market, and now 5 months later I am still not sure what to buy.
    My main issue is that when you look at both TS and TRS, they both look like really great games, but the problem is that they offer things that I would rather have in one game, which means that no matter which one I buy, I cannot get the full enjoyment.

    I sometimes wonder if I as a user is too greedy, but what I want is actually very simple:

    I want the realism that TS has when it comes to actual driving, sounds etc.
    I want the accessibility that TRS has when it comes to route building.

    If I wanted to be even more greedy, I would say that I also wanted the same amount of freeware content that MSTS/OR has to offer, but I know that is impossible, so let us just stick to the first two.
    I am very sad that there is no developer who looked at these two games and said "Hmmm. You know, if we combined both of these, then we would win over both communities".
    OR is very close to being that, but is held back by the graphics that still comes from MSTS.

    Does anyone else feel the same way?

  2. #2
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    I think your argument is a little thin....OR just completed the migration to a better game engine, Monogame.

    At the present...with one exception ( TrainSimulations OR Mullan Route --- still tied to the file formats of MSTS, "s" files and such...) all the data input to OR is older MSTS work....every heard of GIGO or RIRO?

    So until the inputs change...? OR has made tremendous strides in the past five years, still in responsive development with active developers.
    Patience is the byword with an open source project.

    Perhaps you need to do some introspection about this...
    Are you going to really build routes ( or are you just thinking about it?)... Then it's TRS for now
    Are you satisfied with realism ( whatever that means to you) sounds, etc...then it's TS for now
    Do you like steam, because OR is perhaps the best steam simulator that exists..physics are untouchable by other sims.
    Have you tried RUN8?


    Does anyone else feel the same way?
    for myself --- No.
    Cheers, Gerry
    It's my railroad and I'll do what I want! Historically accurate attitude of US Railroad Barons.
    Forever, ridin' drag in railroad knowledge.


  3. #3
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    Hey I'd love to see it all, but I could take a few of the things I enjoy most. There are two main issues 1) depth of the niche 2) variation of the niche.

    Flight simulators for example appeal to more people. Beyond that racing, combat, strategy, etc. etc. Most think that railroading is simple drive a train but it's not that simple. There are so many assets to the hobby one can endure.

    MSTS was the first one I really got into. Run8 lasted for 8 years. Now I'm into just over a month with RAILROADS Online! and I feel this will take me even further. But there are sacrafices for sure. For example I perfer modern, I settled for steam.

    There simply is not enough developers that can meet everyone's expectations. Even in other games this is not uncommon.

    Thanks

    Sean

  4. #4
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    I'm sorry, but I was still busy reading the other thread where people proclaim they still cannot leave the MSTS boat anchors known as the RE and AE behind. And I've lost count, using my toes on one foot, on how many vendors are now offering table form OR physics as standard default on their rolling stock?

    While I share the pain of the OP in wishing for better sunrise/sunsets and more than only one cone of light for just the player train, I've also come to realize that if you are a vendor over age 60 or a user over age 75, getting away from MSTS completely has pretty low success odds.

    Now if you will excuse me, I'm turning my attention back to eliminating the MSTS style thick black smoke stream from a 2021 payware purchase.

  5. #5
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    I have been getting quite a lot of enjoyment out of TSW2, particularly the German routes and (surprisingly) the Boston Sprinter which was added as part of the Rush Hour deal. However you need to be cautious about what you buy - the recent UK Cornish route from DTG's sidekick Rivet Games is very poor quality. In that instance, the MSTS Cornish route running in OR is much better. What I like about TSW is the ability to get down in the world, walk around in first person and interact with the world and the trains in a full 3D environment. Additionally if they ever fix the buggy save game algorithm, having the full days timetable means you can keep going changing trains as necessary to do a full shift. A disadvantage at present is most of the routes come in quite short - even Clinchfield is a cut down section of the one released for TS.

    DTG TS is my second choice. Again has its weaknesses but now has a vast amount of content available.

    In the also rans, Trainz I only give HD space to as it still (IMHO) has the best route editor and is good for making model railway style projects which is about all my patience can run to these days. Run 8 I had a great time for a while but soon tired of all that desert scenery and the very abstract gameplay, even after invoking the industry/car forwarding feature. Diesel Railcar Simulator is nice but primarily of interest to UK railfans. Derail Valley is kind of cool but after a while taking the same loads around the same map to the same location gets a bit tedious. Like TSW the bonus is you can get down on foot in the world, you have full 3D cabs and interface.
    Vern.

  6. #6
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    Hi Folks,

    Much of the reason ORTS may "feel" like an archaic sim - falls upon us as modelers. As a community - we don't take advantage of what we do have. Either we don't have the skills or don't put in the time - to achieve - realistic texture work in the sim. Merely peruse the ORTS screenshot forum and you'll see some incredible textures at play and how much of a difference they can make. You can't compare a Free Open Source simulator - a labor of love - to something that has a large source of income and can hire trained artists. I'm sure Dovetail can pay their skilled people - of which I'm sure there are many and still make a substantial profit. That said - last time I tried a Dovetail or Auran product (within the last two years) - the physics were appalling - I want trains that behave - well - like trains.

    Regards,
    Scott

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc87dk View Post
    ....Does anyone else feel the same way?
    Yes, most certainly.

    I've been around train sims since BVE was released in English, and have experienced just about every form of train-simming available down the years. But all that experience counts for nought when it comes down to a simple case of personal preference and opinion, and my preference would be for something which mixes the physics of Open Rails (or Run 8) and the glitz of Train Simulator World.

    Definitely not the other way around!
    IBM XT i386; 512Kb RAM; 5.25" FDD; 1.4Mb FDD; 5Mb HDD; VGA 256-colour graphics card; AdLib soundcard; DR DOS 6.0; Windows 3.0

  8. #8

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    Funny, many years ago, I faced the same dilemma..if you can call it that.

    In reality, whether by chance or design, you have various niches to "buy" into. For the casual user, you will me stymied at the lack of portability between the various choices. Overcoming those obstacles and limitations, some of them "legal", will lead you to decide what is best for you.

    If you want to tinker, and tinker in depth, an open source sim is what you want. Otherwise, live with the limitations for each sim, and also be prepared to spend a lot of money for things that on the surface are stuck with a certain sim. Time and time again you will question why there is no portability of features and models. Overcoming those limitations requires being resourceful and also keeping "your" hobby out of the public view, lest it raise the ire of those who see things differently than you.

    Personally, I have opted to mainly stay with Open Rails because it is open source.The open source means that at least your investment will not vanish with next O/S upgrade, etc with some caveats of course. The true joy of the train sim hobby is to be able to modify things to your liking/needs and find exchanges with like minded people that help you learn. Mostly, that is not possible with other payware sims.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by EldoradoRailroad View Post
    If you want to tinker, and tinker in depth, an open source sim is what you want. Otherwise, live with the limitations for each sim, and also be prepared to spend a lot of money for things that on the surface are stuck with a certain sim. Time and time again you will question why there is no portability of features and models. Overcoming those limitations requires being resourceful and also keeping "your" hobby out of the public view, lest it raise the ire of those who see things differently than you.

    Personally, I have opted to mainly stay with Open Rails because it is open source.The open source means that at least your investment will not vanish with next O/S upgrade, etc with some caveats of course. The true joy of the train sim hobby is to be able to modify things to your liking/needs and find exchanges with like minded people that help you learn. Mostly, that is not possible with other payware sims.
    Sir you have my big respect. I could not said it better than this.

  10. #10
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    last time I tried a Dovetail or Auran product (within the last two years) - the physics were appalling - I want trains that behave - well - like trains.
    Auran is actually now N3V but I can agree where Trainz is concerned which largely relegates it to the model railway creation tool.

    However TSW2 as I said if you choose carefully, the trains aren't all bad. I'm currently doing a number of runs on the Boston Sprinter route with the MBTA F40 out to Providence etc. and back and it handles very well. Most of the German and UK stuff has good physics too, they have come a long way since the original stuff in TSW(1).

    If you enjoy Open Rails fair enough, but I am now at the point where I appreciate a bit of entertainment or as Bruce puts it, some "glitz". Maybe in years to come OR will support full 3D cabs and player interaction with the world, but who is going to be building or adapting the routes and trains that can provide the "world" experience. Like it or not TSW expands because people are getting paid to create the content and DTG (generally) know what sells.
    Vern.

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