Why is there no modern simulator that offers "best of both worlds"?

[scottb613]

Hi Folks,

Understood - to be fair - I only bought one addon for DTG and got frustrated pretty early on - pulling it off my machine in its entirety. It can certainly look good - Wayne graciously shared his Pacific North West “work progress” route with me and it was absolutely gorgeous and spectacular - as everything he does - is.

As for N3V - the scenery popping killed it for me as well.

The other problem with ORTS is that nobody seems willing to put in the time to learn how to create and produce new content - the flow of new files has been reduced to an absolute Chinese Water Torture drip - in my part of the world. We certainly need more and new people to step up - or we won’t have much of a future.

Regards,
Scott


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[ex-railwayman]

I understand where the OP is coming from, however, it all depends on what you actually want in your ''game'', do you want a proper simulator, or, an arcade game-type offering, we're all different and purchase accordingly, to our time commitments and budgets. I also started out with MSTS and then Trainz UTC in 2003, I think it was, I enjoyed the versatility in Trainz, you could have 4 differently sounding SD40-2s in various fallen flag schemes, you could change the enginesounds and horns to whatever you wanted for each locomotive by amending the specification quite easily individually in the kuid, unsure if you can do that today in the other train/railway simulators, it's a one sound fits all approach, which harms the immersion in my eyes. My go to game nowadays is TS2022 as it offers me absolutely massive amounts of variety, immersion, good soundpacks, a wow factor on many routes, excellent graphics with a good GPU, now that we have a plethora of 3D assets to supercede the archaic 2D Kuju stuff, and an alround good game stability. You get to learn how to drive an amazing amount of locomotives and multiple units from across the globe, thanks to the various communities creating diverse material from their own countries, Brazil to South Africa, China to New Zealand, Russia to Canada, Europe to Scandinavia, and the vast majority of 3rd party content is built to a very good standard, especially, the freeware content. If you can tinker under the hood in your game then you can experiment and expolit it to your heart's content and generate enough enjoyment and pleasure in your hobby to keep you happy for years, long may that continue.

Cheerz. Steve.

[NorthernWarrior]

The other problem with ORTS is that nobody seems willing to put in the time to learn how to create and produce new content - the flow of new files has been reduced toy an absolute Chinese Water Torture drip - in my part of the world. We certainly need more and new people to step up - or we won’t have much of a future.

The fact is, the vast majority of people who just want to drive a train are probably not even looking at OR, let alone developing content for it. They want the new and shiny and certainly unlikely to dip their toes in creating content. If you look on social media, like the Alan Thomson Facebook site, OR hardly ges a mention - then to be fair neither, do Trainz, Derail Valley or any of the other fringe sims.
ORTS has something of a reputation outside its immediate cadre, we have seen controversy over the years about Elvas Tower, on this board it does seem to get pushed in peoples faces when they ask for a balanced view of what might suit them not to mention the hostility towards using stuff from MSTS which is an instant turn off for anyone who might be thinking of dabbling in creating something.

[R. Steele]

I've lost count of how many times a thread with a title "What is the best simulator" ... "Why is there a simulator that does this" have been started... and usually from someone who rarely participates in the forum. For example the OP joined TS in 2010 and has a total of 29 posts...is the poster even running a train sim, or merely exercising idle curiosity?

The older threads I've read that pose this general line of enquiry most often erupted into flame wars. Thanks goodness the current crop appears to have outgrown that. .... and they never do lead anywhere, except into the weeds, nothing decided, no new information.

[seagoon]

I've lost count of how many times a thread with a title "What is the best simulator" ... "Why is there a simulator that does this" have been started... and usually from someone who rarely participates in the forum......

The fact that they rarely post does not necessarily equate to them rarely reading what others post.
And there is no requirement that anyone interested in operating a train simulation must also involve themselves in the creative side of the hobby - and that goes for many things in life: I love coffee but I don't grow the beans and nor do I grind them.

[R. Steele]

... I love coffee but I don't grow the beans and nor do I grind them.

coolbeans.jpg you're certainly full of 'em.

[NorthernWarrior]

On an optimistic note, our hobby is in a much better state than if the question had been asked in (say) 1999. Back then there were few cab view simulators and those that did exist offered the crudest of graphics and sound support was generally limited to a few squeaks from the built in PC speaker.

So whether your poison is ORTS, one of the Dovetail sims or somewhere on the road between the two we are still extremely lucky compared to those earlier times. There is still new stuff being developed, already mentioned Diesel Railcar Sim but there is Simrail 2021 which okay is primarily aimed at a European market and a couple of tram sims too. Back in 1999 I foolishly bought Trolley Time which came on a floppy CD and had a top down view and who remembers 3D Railroad Master with the box art which promised so much, but gave a basic flat terrain and locomotives with simple arcade physics.

[seagoon]

.....who remembers 3D Railroad Master ....

(raises hand)...I do, sir! I do!

Do you also remember "Black 5", Vern? It seemed promising from the outset, but died in the arse pretty quickly.

[Shawmut]

Years ago I worked in an all-round hobby shop; it had a large model train section that included a generous section of brass locomotives; a section that dealt with wargames and, later, the budding rpg-style of game; a huge plastic model section and finally a superb R/C model plane section.

At about that time a new aspect of the R/C plane hobby appeared, called "ARF." ARF means "almost ready to fly." These were large (56" wingspan and larger) model planes that could be put together in a day or two because all of the basic assembly had already been done: a fuselage, the wings, the empennage, the motor mount, etc. etc. Just screw the basic parts together and install your radio equipment and off you went. Some of them came with the radio equipment already installed; you didn't even have to do that (but of course you paid extra for that).

I remember being horrified at this development, as part of the joy of the hobby was building it yourself. At about that time I befriended a fellow who was a genial R/C plane nut (to the point that he designed his own planes and published them in magazines) who was also a physics Ph.D candidate at the University of Michigan. His field of study was batteries and their miniaturization.

One day I got into a discussion with him about the "ARF" situation and how it was the harbinger of a decline in western civilization, and he replied by merely mentioning that, and I quote him here "When you learn to play tennis you don't have to learn how to make a tennis racket. Nor do you have to learn how to make a piano to become a pianist."

Hmm, point taken. OR is a fabulous open-source sim that is fun to work in for some folks. But outside our little corner I don't think it even makes a blip in most people's consciousness. Nor do I think that Mr. Jackson at DTG is worried in the slightest about OR eating into his DLC-fed profits. Most folks just want to get a sim and play around in it, not build it. We do, but we fool ourselves if we think that this is the mode that most people prefer.

Imagine going to a car dealer and having him give you a piece of bar stock and requesting that you cut out your camshaft on the lathe that he conveniently provides for your use. "Just cut away anything that doesn't look like a lobe for your valves." Then of course you'll have to figure out the timing. That's what OR is like for most folks. The freaking manual for the stable 1.4 version is 330 pages long, for pete's sake! With that kind of choice and/or having a sim they just download from Steam and then off they go, what do you think they are going to do?

All of us are fortunate that some of the fraternity here are accomplished modelers willing to share their hard work - for no recompense - with the community. And that is an aspect of our hobby that I just love, and that no DTG-like sim - which is based on cold cash - can compete with. Scott's exquisite steam locomotives, for example. The plethora of intermodal models from Mr. Tucker-Wells for another and Mr. Storey's plug-in physics.

I've tried most of the sims, including some that I bet most of the US sim enthusiasts have never heard of, much less tried. Zusi, anyone? But I always come back to OR and MSTS. And I do that with the knowledge that I will be in a permanent minority - that's just the nature of the beast.

[ragtimer]

As far as I am concerned all I want to do is drive a train from A to B,especially those I drove in the RW,maybe a little shunting (real world shunting (switching) is pretty boring and repetitive),see a fair number of AI trains (especially if I have created the traffic on a single line route) in activities both created by me and by others.Even better on a route I have driven in real life.Nostalgia is great!
Virtually every hobby involving models is 2 stage,building the thing and then operating it.
I have no skill re building stuff and am very grateful to those who can and either share or sell.
MSTS does it for me,I find OR too complicated but might use it if some things were changed but am not holding my breath.Hats off to those who have produced it as again it would be beyond me.