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Thread: Trs22

  1. #101
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    S.W.WALES
    Posts
    3,945

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    TRS22 does not contain Surveyor 2. It is only part of the Plus & Gold membership versions.
    Yma O Hyd

  2. #102
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    NC, USA.
    Posts
    3,042

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    Thanks Phil for that extra info but you have more credibility with Trainz route building than anybody else I know, so of course your input has more pull than most others. Just the first paragraph alone is an indictment of the people who wrote Surveyor 2 especially if during that time they didn't asked experienced developers like yourself if the features they added were a good idea or not. Back during my route building days I often asked Tim G why the heck they turned a blind eye to good criticism (though usually expressed poorly), but still, the improvements those additions would've made would've been priceless for the game. And I've said this before that their audience, mostly from MSTS, is an audience made up career professionals whom in many cases the cream of the crop only to be ignored.

    To me train games are more a tragedy of lost opportunity because of the game developer deafness. Who uses their games more than us? Just one of the keys to my own success in route building in those days was working with Marc Nelson whom in my opinion knew ten times as more about Railworks than DTG did. I'm not writing that with malice or sarcasm. I could give you an example where Marc walked me through a route killer issue DTG caused that DTG said itself would take them six weeks to get to. In one phone call, with Marc, he had the issue resolved in forty minutes. And if you liked Ohio Steel 2 Marc was pretty much the reason it didn't end up never released. It was no simple thing either. And yet day after day they blew off Marc for reasons I never understood.

    I think the best advice I'm listening to is to stay with Trainz 19. Right now I'm learning Unity/C# and still working with Blender, Substance Painter, the Affinity series too... Not sure I want to add a lesser efficient more complicated Surveyor especially if its retarding your workflow. - Rich

  3. #103
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Yamba, N.S.WALES, Australia
    Posts
    4,574

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    Quote Originally Posted by philskene View Post
    Just a few quick words about Surveyor 2...........
    Progress? Maybe not.
    The old story of change not necessarily equating to improvement.

    I can relate to programmers not having any idea of how the end product will sit with the people for whom it was designed and created; what is intuitive to someone who is building the thing may be nowhere near intuitive to the end user.

    Thus the reason we used to sling $25 each to random uni students to come in and "road test" our new (legal stuff) database each month after it had been produced. Their feedback was critical to us getting a friendly product into the hands of our customers.
    IBM XT i386; 512Kb RAM; 5.25" FDD; 1.4Mb FDD; 5Mb HDD; VGA 256-colour graphics card; AdLib soundcard; DR DOS 6.0; Windows 3.0

  4. #104
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    NC, USA.
    Posts
    3,042

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    I received an email broadcast from N3V(?) and it's a survey, filled it out, and sent it back. Did you all get the same? I gave them a 50/50 rating cause I'm still sitting here debating what to do about route building in the future. I thought the survey was a good idea to do because by the end of it I had a better idea what's causing my hesitation and it came down to trust issues. Route building takes so long that it's a lot of wasted capital if you never finish it, IMO. And I would hate to get any distance in a route only to figure out I just don't care for the process. I still think it's worth a try, sort of.

  5. #105
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Swindon, England
    Posts
    6,277

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    Filled the survey out and sent it back with a similar rating. Route building very good but the driver/engineer side of things is way due an overhaul. If they could add the ability to make player timetables or scenarios like MSTS and TSC, with an autonomous “Otto” despatcher as powerful as Run 8, would get 100% support from me.
    Vern.

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